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‘Crazy s--t’: White House lawyer says Trump told him to mislead Mueller despite likely criminality

‘Crazy s--t’: White House lawyer says Trump told him to mislead Mueller despite likely criminality

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EndoShota

And yet McGahn waited to disclose this long after his tenure as White House counsel and certainly after it could have had a functional impact like during the 2020 election. I’d bet that, had Trump been re-elected, McGahn would’ve still remained silent to protect the person who, while demonstrably corrupt, was still usefully advancing the conservative agenda he supports.


tomdarch

I am not a lawyer, but this incident sounds like Trump pushing to obstruct justice. Separate from prosecuting Trump now that he is out of office, might McGahn's ability practice law be at risk because he didn't report someone (note: not his client, as McGahn worked for the federal government, not Trump personally) pushed him to lie to investigators?


EndoShota

If Giuliani hasn’t been disbarred yet, I highly doubt McGahn will be.


razdazalcatrazzz

As a layperson, it seems like an ANSTRONOMICALLY HIGH bar for a lawyer to get disbarred. Same for a cop to get removed from the force. Just doesn't seem like there is very much that can actually get them punished.


zam_I_am

Fuck with the trust account money and you’re gonzo.


robpal11

As others have mentioned, the bar for some things is higher than others. I had a professor describe it in an interesting way: “Get caught with $1,000 in Blow and you can be redeemed. Steal one cent of a clients money and you’ll never practice law again.”


prettyqualified

Same with doctors. We hold some people in our society to such ridiculous regards. A lawyer I heard about stole from his clients, went to jail, and came out with a good job waiting for him. Criminality and all. I guess no 2 crimes are alike


SurlyRed

> lawyers face automatic disbarment for a felony conviction under [New York law](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/02/26/michael-cohen-disbarred-felony-convictions-prompt-removal/2995414002/)


EndoShota

That as it may be, neither Giuliani nor McGahn have been convicted of anything.


SurlyRed

Seems a ridiculously high bar in any event, if that's the case.


blazinghurricane

You can also (theoretically) lose it for many other reasons, it just isn’t automatic and doesn’t happen often enough.


prettyqualified

It’s not the only reason a person is disbarred but will absolutely be disbarred if they are convicted of a felony. A felony charge alone allows you to still practice. Mind you, this only applies to New York. Not sure what the law is in New Jersey.


theratking007

Nor have they been charged with anything


ALexusOhHaiNyan

Of course. Like all retired civil servants that write books about how they really feel, after they’ve long since given um the power to do anything about it. Best thing old politicians could do for this country is retire and let someone that knows how to maneuver our Brave New World take over.


Mythosaurus

Exactly. All these people only find their spine *after* the damage is done and Trump is safely out of office. And given how Snowden and other whistleblowers are vilified, I honestly cant blame some of them.


febreeze_it_away

Biden's DOJ is functionally still running interference for Trump, pretty sure we have seen the thrust of their campaign promise attempts, from here on its going to be business as usual and the rich win again


philly_steak_cheese

> Biden's DOJ is functionally still running interference for Trump That better stop right fucking now. Though one thing I will say for biden is that he promised to not be involved with justice department operations. So the person I really want to explain himself is garland.


IsayNigel

Garland is the same dude whose response to the IRS leaks was “we’ll do everything in our power to………..track down that leaked info”.


darkpaladin

DOJ enforces the law? Shocking. I don't like it but it is the law and the leak was clearly illegal.


DownandDistanceFBL

It’s called “prosecutorial discretion”, and it’s how they get away with not prosecuting Trump despite the fact that there is clear evidence he committed multiple crimes including Obstruction of Justice. So the tax returns of some billionaires got leaked showing that they don’t pay income tax? Well, then. Unleash the hounds🙄


elcabeza79

Yeah release the hounds now that you're 'aware of' what someone has exposed from your own files. I'm sorry, maybe I'm too hard on the IRS. They don't have the resources to make sure everyone just over the poverty line pays every red cent they owe AND make sure billionaires pay their percentages too. Wait a minute...


DownandDistanceFBL

That’s just it. They spend an inordinate amount of time auditing people that are literally on the poverty line


IsayNigel

Cool, so was Trump’s behavior, but the DOJ didn’t bother to even interview him 🤷🏼‍♂️


livinginfutureworld

A lot of those in the Justice department lean right and it sounds like they're letting their politics run their decisions especially with a hands-off Biden. Merrick Garland has said his top priority is finding out who leaked that Jeff Bezos and other billionaires aren't paying taxes. He doesn't have a problem with Bezos not paying taxes, heavens no, he has a problem that someone leaked it. Merrick Garland was selected by Obama as a Supreme Court pick as the most milquetoast centrist pick that Mitch McConnell would not be able to paint as some radical socialist. And of course it didn't matter anyway Mitch kept obstructing and didn't let Obama see to supreme court justice.. But yeah, Garland is not some fire breathing progressive champion of the common man or anything like that.


elcabeza79

>Garland is not some fire breathing progressive champion of the common man or anything like that. We don't even need that. All that's needed is the nation's top prosecutor to prosecute federal crimes objectively. Mueller was specifically asked, on camera in a hearing, if Trump could be prosecuted for the obstruction of justice crimes he laid out in his report once he was out of office. The answer: 'yes'. The question was then re-framed more clearly, and the answer was again 'yes'.


cogitoergopwn

This was the fear of a milquetoast D status quo candidate that wasn't Trump. Republican-curious and Trump-fatigued voters who went Biden just save us from Trump, but don't want anything real to change. If they don't throw the fucking book at all this corruption, they will alienate their base and lose majorities, rendering Biden fucking worthless with these traitors on the right. Right now is a time for bold change and reforms.


Funsuxxor

Eh, they're running interference for the office of POTUS. I don't agree, but it's not as a favor to Trump.


chicago_bunny

This is the right answer for their motivation, but also strikes me as so shortsighted. It's an open invitation for the most corrupt people to seek the office by allowing it to become a rule-free zone.


haltingpoint

Do you have proof of this? Because they are still conducting investigations. They aren't going to move until they are ready to. And this goes so deep they need to be extremely cautious in how they proceed.


EndoShota

While you’re probably right about that, as far as McGahn goes, had he wanted to he could’ve gone to the press.


ThorGBomb

He’s trying to save himself from the inevitable backlash once the full facts come out. Unless the gop gains control in 2022 then we’re gonna get new history books where slaves were happy in servitude no gop policy has ever failed and all things bad are from liberals.


tomdarch

Admitting that a federal employee with some power over him (not Trump's personal attorney, but a federal employee himself) may have committed obstruction of justice by pushing him to lie to investigators and not reporting that likely crime is an odd way to "cover one's own ass" unless the rest is really, really bad.


PleaseEvolve

…what? ..slaves? /s


Distinct_Judge1246

I heard they WANTED to work


RizzoF

for many, it was a *social elevator*, even


EndoShota

What backlash? It’s not like McGahn is facing any consequences.


ChoopAdoop

I don't even know how I got signed up on this email blast, but I got an email from the Trump campaign 2 days ago asking for donations because it's Trump's birthday. There are so many things about this that are confounding to me.


thesoppywanker

> ...and certainly after it could have had a functional impact like during the 2020 election. Keep hittin that pipe, bruh. Republicans lead a consequence-free existence.


EndoShota

Eh, my cousin used to work for the GOP, and she voted for a Democrat for the first time in 2020 largely because of all the corruption.


eatingganesha

Yeah exactly... he needs to be disbarred immediately.


chaihalud

He had an ethical duty as a lawyer to perform what is called a "noisy withdrawal." If your client intends to use the representation to further a crime, you must end the representation and tell the other side that your ethical duties require your withdrawal.


hotlipssinkships

Dude do you not realize that trumps cult will likely try and kill this man. I don’t blame people trying to roll on that golden troll. I’ll go to hell happily if I never have to deal with another redneck waiving a god damn trump Rambo flag when the fucking loser never served a day in combat.


lemmecheckit

All water under the bridge. Mueller was pathetic but his report proved obstruction in very clear terms. EVEN WITHOUT MUELLER the obstruction tweets were made in public. It's now on the BIDEN to enforce the law. Nothing Mcgahn says can make Biden do his job. Or Garland if people still believe that Garland is independent.


UnitaryWarringtonCat

>“Frustrated, perturbed, trapped,” he told lawmakers. “Many emotions ... Trapped because the president had the same conversation with me repeatedly, and I thought I conveyed my views and offered my advice, and we were still having the same conversation.” Poor you! Instead of hiding from a subpoena for over two years he could have let us all know his frustrations. He got what he wanted out of Trump and jumped ship. Fuck him.


Courtnall14

> Poor you! Instead of hiding from a subpoena for over two years he could have let us all know his frustrations. > > He got what he wanted out of Trump and jumped ship. Fuck him. I expect news of a book deal to drop shortly.


hniinuefrwer

Trump had so many enablers, including Meuller himself. Never has nor will ever see a single repercussion because he is protected by presidential immunity. Everyone in politics in America knows that if one president were ever to be held accountable for anything done while in office it would be open season on all the shady shit that comes with the title. Even worse, it would be open season for the Republicans to tie a Democrat president up in legal knots, whether there were grounds to or not.


new2accnt

> had so many enablers, He \*still\* has many enablers, which in itself is an anomaly. From what I've observed about politics in the USA, normally, when a candidate for president loses his/her bid, he/she disappears into the fog, not to be heard from for some time. Many simply leave politics altogether. And they surely don't maintain a court of sorts, no group of power players sticks around the loser. But not this time. Too many shady characters, too many from his corrupt administration are sticking around, propping him up, enabling a "comeback" that not everyone expected. Just by himself, fat orange is useless; by the early 2000s, he was a flailing d-lister, a walking punchline, nowhere near the place he was in the early 80s. He went from being viewed as a real estate power player to appear in pornos & in televised wrestling shows. Left to his own devices, without his father or anyone else to compensate, his incompetence & stupidity caught up to him and he was another guy with multiple bankruptcies, scandalous affairs and no credibility. His new rise (right word?) started with mark burnett, who carefully crafted & maintained an image of elder statesman for trump. His foray in politics was underpinned by russian intelligence and a coallition of reich-wing power players who most probably saw him as a tool they could use, despite him being a loose cannon (amongst other things). None of his recent "successes" are because of him, they are *despite of* him. 45 is in a position of, huh, power because of others' work. Why others are working to help him is incomprehensible to me. It's not as if he's a charming, inspiring individual; it's not as if he is a talented orator; his personality is beyond abrasive and he is, well, a "f\*cking moron" to quote people that worked with him. Hell, foreign leaders have repeatedly said dealing with cheeto jesus is like dealing with a toddler. So why, after losing his re-election bid, isn't he shunned and isolated? Why didn't he just fade into the background, never to be heard again? Why are people helping him, when he's a loser? If anyone should end up alone because of who he is and what he did, it's 45. Whatever power he has, is because others are choosing to give it to him. Why they are doing it, when they could choose not to is a very good question, because it doesn't make sense. Seriously, he should be viewed as "having served his purposed" and be discarded, ignored into oblivion by team (r)'s upper ranks. Whomever was propping him up before should act similarly. They did before with more talented people. Why things are different this time should be looked into. Seriously, this is almost tinfoil hat territory it's so bizarre & incomprehensible.


TomSwirly

> Why are people helping him, when he's a loser? Trump horrifies me in every way. I cannot watch him speak for more than a few seconds. My suspicion has always been that that is exactly why he's so popular - that a hundred million people define themselves by opposition to rationality, compassion, logic, law and inclusiveness.


zeeper25

Trump allowed them to voice their inner racism That was enough to get their backing and support. Now that Trump is being exposed as a liar, fraud, and con man, they are doubling down because admitting that they were conned would make them feel like they are gullible racist morons, so they see past anything that conflicts with the reality he carefully created for them. Wait until they find out he isn't a billionaire and see his businesses fold as all that Russian debt comes due...


De5perad0

It's a horrifying mirror into a large portion of the population.


aztecraingod

The thing I done get is that even his own followers were bored of him at the end. Those 4or 5 hour rallies where he was just rambling incoherently were punctuated by the crowd yawning and shuffling out halfway through.


fiduciaryatlarge

Kompromat.


shaolinjesus

On Oct 1st of 2018 Trump brags about a Dem Senator that he's seen in some compromising situations. Less than a week later Manchin is the lone Dem to end debate and vote to confirm Kavanaugh. Curious coincidence?


BALONYPONY

The scary thing to think about is the reason the GOP, cabinet members and former WH staff are remaining silent about that fucking circus of an administration is they are still confident he will rise to power again and then all bets are off. It chills me to my bone to imagine that happening again and if it does it will never end.


hereforthefeast

This. They’re all on Putin’s payroll. Russia funds the GOP via the NRA. GOP blocks any investigation into it. They are Kompromat. https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/764879242/nra-was-foreign-asset-to-russia-ahead-of-2016-new-senate-report-reveals https://www.cbsnews.com/news/timeline-of-russian-plot-to-infiltrate-nra-and-gop/ https://archive.thinkprogress.org/fec-republicans-block-efforts-to-investigate-nras-financial-ties-to-russia-a916adcc7015/


DarthLordRevan29

I feel like there is alot of people in America that are just like trump. From their political views to their hatred but they have been in hiding mostly. Now that theres a *ex* president that is exactly like they are they no longer need to live in the shadows. Thats why there has been more shootings and hate crimes and everything because these people feel they can unite under trumps hate. This is why, i believe, that people are trying to hold onto trump so bad, these type of people want to keep doing the things their doing but without trump feel like they have to go back into the shadows. (This is just an opinion im not saying what im saying is 100% factual)


hermitoftheinternet

He's a useful idiot with a fairly predictable, if odious, personality who has become a reservoir of influence for all kinds of (appropriately) underrepresented groups like fascists and dominionist extremists, as well as a darling to the usual (R) voters. For a party that previously had charges of a shrinking demographic and who never really minded courting racists and overt Christian supremecy, a former President with term remaining and at least 3-4 kids looking to hold office isn't a bad deal. If you've already sold your soul for power, what's another step in that direction? Especially if your opposition is so invested in keeping the system together (since they're the ones who say "government can work") that they aren't able to react to rotting it away from the inside so it becomes something else entirely.


fullercorp

And his supporters- voters and politicians- ignore that the rest of the world- Trudeau, Merkel, Macron- HATE him and will not deal with him a second time. He is that obnoxious, destructive brat kid in your 5th grade class who never gets an invite to anyone's party.


De5perad0

Fantastic account of his time in politics so far. I can't imagine why he is still being helped after everything that has happened. Someone seems to think he still has value to the party somehow.


new2accnt

To the party or some other entity? I'm convinced team (r) would be happy to be rid of him, but somehow they are influenced, "encouraged" into submission. This is why I say this is tinfoil-hat territory. Like manchin, there is more than meets the eye with these people helping cheeto jesus.


De5perad0

I think the voter base has some influence as well. They think he may have the best chance of rallying enough votes to win back power. I'm worried they are right about that.


blgiant

Excellent post


ChoomingV

>Trump had so many enablers, including Meuller himself. Never has nor will ever see a single repercussion because he is protected by presidential immunity. > Immunity is bullshit and no one should have baseline immunity simply for the job they do.


UnitaryWarringtonCat

It would have been nice if Mueller had said from the start, 'This memo says a sitting president can't be charged. If that is the case then the president will not be a part of this investigation and another special counsel should be set up to first, determine the legal merit of that memo, and second to assess if the president did in fact commit a crime. To investigate without legal consequences being an option is a waste of time and resources.' Instead he was a good little soldier, exactly what I expected after I read Comey's book about how Mueller ran the FBI.


lakxmaj

The crazy thing is that the Special Counsel exists as it does today because congress killed off the Independent Counsel after the Starr Investigation. The Independent Counsels didn't hesitate to point the finger at Presidential wrongdoing when they wanted to. But when Congress killed the legislation that created the Independent Counsels office, it was replaced with DoJ internal regulations - which meant that Mueller was governed by DoJ rules and had to answer to the Attorney General. edit: To highlight one of major differences - Independent counsels were supposed to report any wrongdoing they uncovered to congress. Special Counsels report only to the Attorney General. Remember after the Mueller investigation wrapped up that Barr released a misleading summary and then sat on the rest of the report for weeks.


Lucifuture

Investigate the president but report to a position the president appoints, that doesn't make any fucking sense.


robodrew

It's almost as though Ken Starr was put there specifically to kill off the idea of the Independent Council


terremoto25

And, of course, to stick a knife in the Clinton’s at the Repugnants request…


pantsmeplz

And then Starr went on to ignore a major rape scandal at [Baylor University.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baylor_University_sexual_assault_scandal)


GrayEidolon

I always thought the executive branch investigating the executive branch was odd


CreativeCarbon

He broke his oath of office the day of the insurrection, and should have thereby lost his presidential protection.


Dyslexic_Wizard

He broke his oath of office long before that.


zombiepirate

If I can't accept Saudi bribes, why would I even want to be president?


Feshtof

Legal consequences were an option, just an option reserved by Congress


adonutforeveryone

Republicans do that anyway. Benghazi!


600659

I wondered about Mueller's approach. My impression at the time was that he was doing everything he could not to be partisan to tee up the democratic system to properly react. It contrasts wildly with Ken Starr who went far over his original remit to investigate the Lewinsky affair.


creamonyourcrop

Rosenstein ordered him to ingnore any Russian investigation, something Mueller kept secret. He sandbagged the investigation and bought time.


HimOnEarth

To be fair that was clearly an investigation into much more heinous an accusation. /s


Sujjin

Investigating the Lewinsky affair was already far past what he was supposed to investigate. the original investigation was for the Whitewater real estate deal. Starr couldnt find anything there to damage Clinton politically so resorted to this. Edit: Whitewater not GoldWater


camxct

>the Goldwater real estate deal You got Barry G. on the mind, my friend! It was the *Whitewater* controversy.


Sujjin

you are right. but my point still stands. The Lewinsky affair was already wildly outside of the original purview of Starr's investigation.


camxct

Oh, agreed, just wanted to get the right term out there.


Sujjin

that is fair


Politirotica

Two different entities. Starr was a independent counsel, Mueller a special counsel. Republicans hated the IC statute, because it was a reaction to Nixon and nearly got Reagan impeached, so they used it to squeeze Clinton so there would be no will on the other side to reauthorize it when it came up for renewal in 1999. Starr was broadly empowered to investigate Clinton (he was truly independent of DoJ), Mueller was limited by the remit given by the AG/Acting AG.


new2accnt

Team (r) was busy blowing millions of dollars "investigating" president Clinton because they could not accept that he won the 1992 & 1996 elections. They were, in fact, trying to overturn the election results. Whitewater was just a pretext. When that predictably failed despite all of their efforts (seriously, they really dug deep to find *anything* they could use to remove the president), they then went on a fishing expedition and spread rumours no matter how ridiculous it looked. The Clinton had Vince Foster killed by lesbian assassins! Scandal! A much younger Bill tried to avoid being sent to Viet-Nam? Scandal! A much younger Bill might have smoked a joint, once? Scandal! etc. And yet, after years of investigations and rumour-mongering, they had nothing... Until monica lewinsky, who had moved on from the White House to the Pentagon, started bragging about having had an affair with the still-sitting president of the USA. The rest is history.


Politirotica

All of that is true, but it was with the goal of reducing executive oversight. Republican presidents had gotten in to the habit of breaking the law, and Republican legislators didn't want them suddenly getting punished by an independent watchdog. So they found a bitter partisan named Ken Starr and watched the show as he went to work.


Counting_Sheepshead

Mueller wanted to do everything as conservatively as possible and as quickly as possible. When he found stuff a bit out of his purview, he'd spin it off into other investigations (some of which we still don't have details on). My big issue with Mueller isn't that he didn't break new ground by indicting Trump, it's that he didn't include the Roger Stone investigation as part of the Trump campaign misconduct simply because Stone wasn't an official member of the campaign in 2016. (Even though he called Trump regularly.) Stone was an obvious choice to do "off the books" work for the campaign and the link could have been proven easily.


InterPunct

>(some of which we still don't have details on) There will be careers made for decades investigating Trump's misdeeds. Forensic accountants, legal prosecutors, cyber-security specialists, law professors, documentarians, just to name a few. The years-long delays are also to enable the culpable people to retire or die, sometimes even to protect their families. Similar things happened after the JFK and MLK assassinations, Watergate, etc.


Counting_Sheepshead

Probably. Regardless of what I think of her broadcasting persona, Rachel Maddow's "Bagman" podcast from a couple years ago was absolutely fantastic and it's hard to believe how much of that Agnew stuff was under wraps for like 40 years.


LiquidAether

> My impression at the time was that he was doing everything he could not to be partisan to tee up the democratic system to properly react. Mueller displayed an impossibly naïve worldview of how the system works in reality. I'm still not sure if he was complicit, an idiot, or just terrified.


bobartig

> not sure if he was complicit, an idiot, or just terrified. at the end of the day he is still an old guard republican, so take your pick.


Cloaked42m

Weren't 6 people indicted during that investigation?


PanderTuft

37 entities were indicted I believe. 8 guilty pleas, one conviction at trial. The other entities were foreign without extradition treaties.


HoosDare

Mueller is a republican. Are you really not sure which one?


i_redditedit

Republicans do this anyways (Benghazi). They don’t need precedent and willingly ignore it when it benefits them (Amy Coney Barrett).


hyperqbit

Kobayashi Maru


HabloTaco

Everything the right wing touches turns to shit. In today's episode: the Presidency; side B: democracy


letsreticulate

Well, yes and now. Did you read the Mueller Report yourself? It was pretty damning. It was just all written between the lines. He essentially said that he could not charge him of anything because of the pre-existing practice of the DOJ not going after sitting Presidents. But he stated that if that was not there that they would have. Not to mention have done more investigating. Problem is no on everyone read it and thus everyone makes their own interpretations because they did not read it cover to cover.


chrunchy

Problem is one side read it and understood what was between the lines and the other side took it at face value and told their supporters to not bother reading it because it was a nothingburger.


deathcloc_politics

I'm sick of all these fucking weasels who had insider knowledge of this shit and just sat on it so as to not inconvenience themselves. Sound the alarm! Blow the whistles! It's too late now, you get ZERO credit for talking about it now. In fact I think they should all be prosecuted along with him. Whistle blowing on criminal activity should be legally mandated, in the same way that you cannot harbor criminals.


bunkscudda

This is going to be the defense of more and more Trump bootkissers. "I knew it was wrong, but i was powerless to do anything!" Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit. Every Single Trump enabler is just as culpable in his crimes as him


blueblank

I would prefer honesty rather than the crocodile tears of 'former', 'resigned', and 'ex-' leaders and staffers parading their false resignations of the past. Why is it always after the fact? Admit you are a shit and corrupt piece of shit.


adjust_the_sails

Narcissists and idiots are like that. They think if they ask the same question enough times that they will eventually get the answer they want.


Frnklfrwsr

As has been explained by Trump’s former lawyer, Cohen, Trump’s method of giving instructions to people that he knows are illegal are basically to state what he wants to happen over and over until the person gets that he’s supposed to do something illegal to make it happen. Which is probably why Trump got so frustrated with McGahn because this lawyer wasn’t getting his extremely obvious request to simply break the law for him.


superbelt

Yeah but he got three Supreme Court Justices that he and his people liked, pushed through with Trump, so it was worth it to him in the end.


canuck47

"Trump told him to mislead Mueller" - that's called obstruction of justice, plain and simple.


lonnie123

But what would he even need to mislead him about? According to him he did nothing wrong, and the phone call was perfect


CrazyLegs17

Mueller was investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election, not the quid pro quo phone call with the Ukraine.


lonnie123

Yeah I lumped them together. I just meant to say trump always says he never did anything, and yet he instructed his council to mislead… soooo… must have done something right?


swinging-in-the-rain

Ha. Laws are only relevant if enforced.


aretasdamon

Where. Were. You. During. The. Impeachment. Trial!


Toothlessdovahkin

Laughing his ass off at the TV sitting in his mansion, duh.


RaynSideways

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't GOP ensure the impeachment trial didn't call witnesses? What good would this guy showing up have done?


SSHeretic

[Trump ordered the White House counsel to obstruct justice]


ThunderingMantis

There it is. Can’t stand these mealy mouthed headlines


aCucking2Remember

I also hate the dancing around with words but there’s legal reasons they do this. Accusing someone of a crime is itself a damage. It’s defamation. Until they have been convicted they can’t call someone a criminal.


MeshColour

Well they fully can, they just open up the possibility of defamation/libel lawsuits, which they would win as long as the subject is a public figure and they are acting in good faith with the allegations But lawyers are expensive and don't like opening themselves up to lawsuits even if they know they'll win that lawsuit 90% of time. Need better laws against SLAPP still


Stressed_Member

J'Accuse…! Zola risked his career in January 1898 when he decided to stand up for Alfred Dreyfus. Zola wrote an open letter to the President of France, Félix Faure, accusing the French government of falsely convicting Alfred Dreyfus and of anti-Semitism. His intention was to draw the accusation so broadly that he wouldessentially force men in the government to sue him for libel. Once thesuit was filed, the Dreyfusards (supporters of Dreyfus) would have theopportunity to acquire and publicize the shaky evidence on which Dreyfushad been convicted. Zola titled his letter "J’Accuse" (French for "I Accuse"), which was published on the front page of Georges Clemenceau's liberal Paris daily L'Aurore. It didn't end well for Zola though. [J'Accuse...!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%27Accuse%E2%80%A6!) (wiki link) Edit: corrected the link.


mcgrud

FTFY: [J'Accuse...!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%27Accuse%E2%80%A6!)


600659

The game is to avoid the lawsuit ever getting to conclusion and drawing he other side with spurious bullshit.


Panda_hat

[Individual 1 has still not been held to account or faced Justice]


tomdarch

Repeatedly. And this federal employee did not report that another federal employee appeared to be obstructing justice to any authorities we know of. Note that part of Bill Clinton's impeachment charges was the charge that Clinton "hinted at" something with a secretary (to cover his ass re. Lewinski) and that was the basis for an obstruction of justice clause in the impeachment. More Republican senators voted to convict on that obstruction charge than on the perjury charge from Clinton's statements under oath.


BadMuthaFunka

There’s no amount of evidence republicans are willing to accept to face reality. These people either don’t care or have had their brains rendered mush by right wing media.


5DollarHitJob

This is so true. I was thinking of posting to Facebook to see what the Trumpites will say but they'll just say this is all some deep state something something fake news. It's always the same. Anything they believe is gospel even if its from some clearly bs website and anything they don't believe is fake. Had one tell me the other day that the AP is left wing propaganda. The AP.


anon6643278

It's the Hitler playbook playing out. Using the human condition of no one liking to feel like an idiot, against itself. They just go deeper and deeper, all to protect their own egos.


[deleted]

One of the few things Trump was right about was that his followers (or more correctly sycophants) would support him no matter how corrupt or criminal. We have seen that prediction play out - even as he tries to subvert our elections and democracy.


beedubaya

In wake of the legalization of same-sex marriage, they are committed to "scorched earth" as a last-ditch effort to restore America to "Christian values." That mindset is behind almost everything coming from the GOP these days.


swinging-in-the-rain

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." -Upton Sinclair


thomascgalvin

Man, if only this could have come out during some kind of formal proceeding to determine if Trump violated his oath of office and/or the laws of this land! Oh well, I guess nothing can be done...


IJustLoggedInToSay-

Wouldn't have mattered. He just would have been branded a deep state liberal and his testimony completely ignored. That impeachment was doomed from the start, so long as Republicans had any say.


prof_mcquack

I think it would have been nice to have had testimony where it actually mattered. If you recall, GOP refused to call any witnesses or enter any evidence in the actual impeachment trial. The level of fuckery is even worse lol


kmonsen

If everyone has come out it might have changed things. If any one single person flipped, or a few, it would not change anything like we saw.


NOYOUCHOOSEUSERNAME

I think you're giving Republicans in the Senate too much benefit of the doubt. Even the moderates (Collins, Murkowski) choose their party over their country. Only reason Romney felt like he was safe to vote for impeachment is because Mormons disfavor Trump (in so far as conservative sub-populations go.)


willdeb

Spoiler: it wouldn’t have. If crazy people storming the capitol didn’t change anything, what makes you think testimony would have?


aCucking2Remember

Instructing counsel to mislead prosecutors, that’s a crime. And everyone including Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy knew it all along and protected him and lied to us during the impeachment trial. I’m so mad that all this was allowed to go on.


Salt_Laugh

It's becoming more and more embarrassing and really shameful internationally, that the US is seemingly powerless to correct and bring to Justice the putrescence of the Trump presidential era. It's very difficult, if not impossible to declare the resurgence of American democracy while continuing to wallow in the swamp of the past 4 years. If the DOJ and/ or Congress refuse to act, then We should probably quit airing out our filthy laundry for the world to see


OrangeDon45

Seriously - can ANYONE be surprised like this? Trump lied EVERY TIME he walked up to a microphone - well, you know, when he wasn't too busy being a White Supremacist and calling out his White Pride folks...


Rumsoakedmonkey

You paint poor ol donnie as such a one dimensional character. He is also sexist and loves making fun if disabled people


GaudExMachina

And Veterans. Cant forget that he likes to abuse veterans who aren’t homicidal maniacs.


Fatbeerguy

“But he tells it like it is and don’t take shit from no one!” - my trump loving, nra supporting, religious nutcase father in law.


DangerBay2015

He takes shit from everyone and then goes on social media and Fox & Friends and whines about how mean everyone is. He's basically the same person as he was in Grade 1, remember.


lonnie123

The whining part is him “not taking shit” they think.


CaptainDudeGuy

> "But he validates my selfish, bigoted beliefs!" Fixed that for your father-in-law.


ShenmeNamaeSollich

Gee, your boss the President told you *multiple times* to obstruct justice, and you got so “frustrated” with repeating the same conversation that you … did absolutely fucking nothing at all about it? You didn’t resign, you didn’t speak up to Mueller OR during TWO impeachment hearings OR before/during/right after the election. So sorry about your “frustration” you spineless fucking pussy.


VulfSki

He should be disbarred for this


Nevermind04

>mislead Lie. The word they were looking for is lie.


TurbulentMiddle2970

We all saw him obstructing justice. He didnt hide what he was doing. Telling all his people to ignore subpoenas, trying to fire everyone involved, etc. But 67 million people still chose to ignore it all and make excuses for this scumbag.


NineteenAD9

>Obstruction of justice, in United States jurisdictions, is a crime consisting of obstructing prosecutors, investigators, or other government officials. Common law jurisdictions other than the United States tend to use the wider offense of perverting the course of justice. **Obstruction is a broad crime that may include acts such as perjury, making false statements to officials, witness tampering, jury tampering, destruction of evidence, and many others.** Obstruction also applies to overt coercion of court or government officials via the means of threats or actual physical harm, and also applying to deliberate sedition against a court official to undermine the appearance of legitimate authority >White House lawyer says **Trump told him to mislead Mueller** despite likely criminality Can't figure out if this is obstruction of justice or not.


swinging-in-the-rain

Laws mean nothing if not enforced


WildlingViking

NO SHIT! ARREST THE FUCKING GUY ALREADY. Quit with these headlines. Just quit. Until him and all these other con artists are actually held accountable I don’t give a fuck what other “secret” you uncovered. We all know (except cult45) him and all his fall men are con artists who broke the law thousands of times while in office. Either arrest him or just be done with it. 5 years of these headlines is ENOUGH.


timberwolf0122

If I had done just 1% of the shady shit trump and his cronies did id be in club fed


WildlingViking

Exactly. We would be in jail right now with 20 counts of fraud, racketeering, bribing officials, etc. These people get to walk around with complete immunity. I’m so sick of it and these headlines (which never lead to anything)


[deleted]

Glad the lawyer was just following orders.


MrSpringBreak

Where the fuck are their balls to say this shit WHILE ITS HAPPENING??


Few-Sky-303

So what is being done about it? Dems need to grow some balls and go after these people. I don't give a fuck if they have to "spend political capital" or worry about hurting republicans feelings or breaking precedent or any of the other shit they keep using as excuses.


lateroundpick

I'm a Dem and the national Dems never have balls.


BarryZZZ

Subordination of perjury is a federal crime...but, did the lawyer lie to congress?


Waylander0719

Asking someone to lie is the crime, it doesn't matter if they do it. All that matters is if you asked them to.


BitterFuture

That's a phrase that's going to appear in a lot of history texts about this period.


Diplodocus114

I seriously want to read the whole truth about the Trump administration in my lifetime.


1914Redux

Depends. It might speak a lot about the valiant struggles of Trump as he battled the secret pedo left-wing elite. We are in so much danger.


BitterFuture

You're talking about the imminent collapse of our democracy, which most people seem to think has gone away just because of one election? Yeah, I'd noticed that.


AngryTrucker

Didn't want to do anything about it or tell the world at the time eh? Now that there's no consequences might as well be honest.


dcearthlover

If this guy had any true morals or a fucking spine he would have been a whistleblower. And instead lives quite the privileged life in some massive mansion out in Potomac Maryland f*** these people.


clancy0001

> Former President Donald Trump ordered his top White House attorney to issue a false statement at the height of the Mueller investigation even though he knew the lying could carry criminal consequences for both of them... In another era that one sentence alone would have forced a president to resign in complete disgrace. In Trump's America, that was just another Wednesday. And his supporters loved him for it. And still do to this day.


Non-RedditorJ

I don't understand how an article like this can say that the Mueller probe found no conclusive proof that the President or his campaign directly colluded with Russians, when we know that Roger Stone gave a Russian agent polling data so they could target their misinformation better. Am I wrong about that part? Is there a semantics problem with who was officially part of the campaign that let's them off of the hook? Because it was done through layers of middlemen it doesn't count? Help me out here because it seems cut and dry to me. (Insert "Am I taking crazy pills?" meme here) Edit: I am genuinely curious why these facts are always ignored, because I don't want to spread misinformation about the Stone connection.


misterbondpt

Having witnessed Trump as a POTUS, I will never understand how he wasn't impeached and removed from office, having instigated and supported an attempted coup. Politics corrupts people.


clancy0001

He was actually impeached *twice*. But McConnell saved his ass both times.


sextoymagic

Trump is a traitor and deserves the death penalty for treason.


dfs495

“I don’t care if you break the law. I am the president and I have the 6th or 7th Amendment or some sh!t on my side. I can do anything I want. Besides if needed I have my armed cult that can come in and shoot you to freedom. Hell, let’s just talk about ways to eliminate my enemies now.” - Donald Trump


savingrain

This is why the lawyers in watergate jumped ship....Trump could only keep the most incompetent counsel around who were willing to do and say anything for a moment in the spotlight and they put themselves into a position to lose their legal licenses or possibly go to jail if there is any justice in this world.


Lindsey-18Verdin

Trump should be in jail


Kadderly

It’s not just Trump, the elite know they can get away with everything so they don’t care about the rules.


Retrogamer34

Then bring charges. Enough talk. Do something!


Laika_JR1390

All of these Trump officials lack balls and spines. Now when there’s no consequences for telling the truth about what happened, now they’ll start talking. But when we needed them to step up and be truthful in the moment, they instead chose to lie. Mueller isn’t much better. History and democracy asked him to step up to the plate and make the right decision, to call out Trump officially for what he was doing, and instead he chose not to. He didn’t hold him accountable and I cannot wrap my head around how that happened once again. Trump’s got about the worst reputation, behaviors, etc. a person could have and I don’t understand how he’s never been held accountable for any of it.


Haunting_Computer_90

"Former President Donald Trump ordered his top White House attorney to issue a false statement at the height of the Mueller investigation even though he knew the lying could carry criminal consequences for both of them, according to newly unearthed congressional testimony". Is anyone really surprised at TRUMPS action?


IntnsRed

But will Biden's DOJ bother to prosecute the treasonous criminal?


SeeMe_After_Class

Hey Garland, you know how you’re always talking about the importance of the law and following it? Well here you go: one plump orange lawbreaker ready to be prosecuted. There’s more than enough evidence to get a conviction. So what’s the hold up?


Teeklin

What's crazy shit is that the media is treating this like it's news and wasn't all spelled out in detail as part of the DOZEN counts of slam dunk Obstruction of Justice that Mueller painstakingly gathered evidence for and wrote across hundreds of pages. THIS ISNT NEWS WE HAVE KNOWN THIS FOREVER Like what the fuck people? Wait til you read the other ten things he did to fuck with the investigation into his ties with Russia I guess? Boy you're in for a shock! Constantly baffles my fucking mind that the Mueller report was the most damning document ever released against a sitting President and should have resulted in him immediately being impeached and imprisoned and Barr comes out two days before with an editted memo saying that the report cleared the President and every liberal in the nation was like, "oh well guess there was no collusion!" Seriously, the most diehard fuckin liberals on the planet think that the Mueller report said there was no collusion rather than saying the Trump threatened people, fired people, destroyed documents, and hid evidence to prevent them from investigating properly and that there was very likely collusion but the super limited scope of the investigation imposed on them by Barr/Trump kept them from actually exploring those things. The whole report was telling us, without a doubt, that the President was a criminal and that he needed to be removed and we needed to open a new, wider investigation because there was a LOT more shit to uncover. I don't know how Seth Abramson hasn't fuckin shot himself from despair yet after spending all this time laying this out for people and being ignored for years. But check out his twitter and his books for way more detail on all this.


HerbertKornfeldRIP

Is it still possible for those that refused subpoenas to be held in contempt?


cmd71

You mean tRump is a lying, criminal coward? Shocking! Only 2/3 of this country already know that and 1/3 don’t care.


twin_geaks

“Even though he knew lying could carry criminal consequences...” No it doesn’t. Not for Trump. He didn’t give a fuck because he knew he’d be protected, just like he’s still somehow being protected from prosecution despite being a private fucking citizen.


Labantnet

I'm overly sick of hearing about all the officials talking about all the crimes that were committed by and surrounding Trump while not a single one will be prosecuted, all while we continue to criminalize being black or poor. Start prosecuting these people!


snuffy_tentpeg

Remember when Trump gassed the peaceful protesters so he could have a photo shoot with a bible?


amazinglover

This is why he fought tooth and nail to not testify originally. He and everyone associated should go to jail and he should be disbarred.


Somehum

In case anybody was wondering if there any any consequences for lying to congress the answer here is a resounding not at all.


Every_Animator4354

And the GOP are like "oh well...critical race theory..."


Tontoehang10

Trump??? What raw sewerage is all about. With the smell and rot - The Orange is all about the rot.


YaboiHalv5

This post made me feel nostalgic for 2019


WhenImTryingToHide

If there are no consequences for anyone and everyone who participated in 1. Obstruction of Justice 2. Financial Crimes 3. Extorting Ukraine (and possibly others?) 4. Conspiracy to overthrow the govt (insurrection) 5. Attempted Election Fraud Then It really doesn't matter what 'policy' Joe Biden passes. People will have lost all faith in the justice system, and rightfully so. This would be just another nail in the coffin that is the fall of the US. DOJ, what side of history are you going to fall on?


stun

Looks and sounds perfectly like a *future* Republican Attorney General to me.


westondeboer

Holy shit, visiting that site without an ad blocker is insane. How do people do it without an ad blocker?


baconyjeff

Seriously, can we lock up every single person who worked for Trump and is now telling us how horrible it was working for him?


ar1961

Surprised? NYET!


ShakeMyHeadSadly

Federal laws against suborning perjury set the punishment at up to five years in prison, plus fines. And that's what Trump did.


Veritaciti

We all knew this. Including the Republican Senators who wouldn’t convict him. That’s how dysfunctional our type of government has become. The founders knew this was likely.