Fauci calls on China to release medical records of Wuhan lab workers - FT

Fauci calls on China to release medical records of Wuhan lab workers - FT


Hahahahahaha They already have the new ones printed up.


My first thought when I read the title. You must not know much about China if you believe you're getting originals of pretty much anything.


well at least conservatives might stop attacking fauci... oh wait, nvm. im really lost on their hate of him i guess they hate anyone who doesn't suck trumps dick


Well they were called racist for suggesting it came from a Chinese lab and now it’s being suggested it came from a Chinese lab by somebody else it’s totally fine…


Half of conservatives were saying that China manufactured Covid as a bioweapon and purposefully unleashed it on the world as some sort of global attack. They weren't saying that a naturally occurring virus that was being studied escaped. I'm not sure how we as a country were supposed to have a well informed, nuanced discussion about the topic in that climate.


Better just call everyone racist and put it to bed /s


The problem was that even the people who were talking about it being a legitimate leak not a bioweapon were also called racists.




Genuinely curious, any examples I can look into?


From the guy fucking gullible enough to think that Canada is setting up concentration camps for people who don't get vaccinated? Yeah, not likely to get thoughtful peer-reviewed research.


Saying masks don't work early on, getting who knows how many needlessly infected. Then being completely unapologetic and saying other people need them more. Being told by a team of virologists/epidemiologist that the virus was "incompatible with evolutionary theory" then proceeding to tell the American public that the evidence pointed to the virus being naturally occurring (Hey maybe he's a creationist, idk). He also was made aware of his claim that covid had a 2% death rate vs the flu's .2%(.1%? I can't remember) was misleading, as he was using two incomparably different metrics to compare the two. It could go on. Almost anything he's said on the matter he's contradicted himself on at some point.




Wasn't a leak. They were obtained through the freedom of information act (FOIA).


All I can find is paraphrasing and narratives, which I don’t trust in politics. Do you have a direct source of the damning emails?


Not leaked. FIOA. Huge difference.


> His emails got leaked If you start out with a lie, nobody's going to believe anything else you say.


Are you referring to the FOIA release as a leak?


He was told by a dermatologist that. Just because an idiot emailed him doesn't make it news




I personally don't care how the virus originated. Both the "some dude ate a bat" and the "Chinese bioweapon that was accidentally released" are both completely possible. Regardless, china fucked up considering the exotic meat trade was supposed to be banned and bioweapons were made illegal by the Geneva convention


Let's be honest, China fucks a lot of things up. From their treatment of Taiwan (a totally independent nation), to that space debris that they just let fall anywhere, to their treatment of the Uighurs, to fishing in Japan's waters, their support of North Korea... Russia is really bad, but wow. China *really* doesn't give a fuck.


China has the the mentality of 'the winner is the king, and the loser is the thief'. Basically, as long as you win in the end, it doesn't matter what you did to get there, any wrongs will be ignored. It's a really toxic and dangerous mentality, since as long as you are winning, it means that you can do anything, morals and ethic be damned.


Lets make sure they lose.


Isn't that the mentality of any winning country? That's what made the no. 1 most powerful country in the world so successful. China is just copying the U.S.


yeah for the last 50 years the rest of the world was hoping that when China grew up it would behave like a mature adult, instead its like we have a rebellious and snarky teenager on our hands - maybe needs another 50 years to mature


Bat is not that exotic of a meat for most of the world. They did say they would be regulating the farmer's markets, which is all a wet market is, better after SARS. Even shortly after SARS, it was pretty obvious it was half-assed. As long as you were not obviously foreign, you could easily get into a market with poor sanitation.


China has the the mentality of 'the winner is the king, and the loser is the thief'. Basically, as long as you win in the end, it doesn't matter what you did to get there, any wrongs will be ignored. It's a really toxic and dangerous mentality, since as long as you are winning, it means that you can do anything, morals and ethic be damned.


Direct quote; “I love those barrettes in your hair, man,” Biden said. “I tell you what, look at her, she looks like she’s 19 years old, sitting there like a little lady with her legs crossed.” talking about a 10 year old little girl. Does that make him a pedo? No, but it makes him look like creepy AF... also whats the the handsy hair smelling thing he always does with young women and small children?!?!






You realize it was band in the US because its dangerous right? The whole point of the research is to make a worse virus so that you can make vaccines for it to get ahead of the curve. That the lab it supposedly leaked from had very lax safety measures. Its not a Meh issue, its holding researchers to a professional standard that keeps shit like this from happing again. Also just because they are lobbying to get rid of the ban does not mean it will succeed. Honestly with all of the bad press it will be difficult to do anything on that front.


>The whole point of the research is to make a worse virus so that you can make vaccines for it to get ahead of the curve. This makes no sense to me whatsoever. How would creating or enhancing the toxicity of a random virus in a lab assist in developing a vaccine for a virus in nature that caused an outbreak? If it turns out that this pandemic was caused by a leak from the WIV then as far as I'm concerned any scientists involved (including anyone in the US who funded related experimentation in that lab) are guilty of mass murder. No wonder everyone involved is trying to cover their asses rather than getting to the truth.




If a person supported Donald Trump but hates Fauci I'm pretty sure they don't give a flying fuck about credibility and lies.


>In the last couple weeks, he publicly stated that he was been wearing masks to avoid "confusing and contradictory messaging" to the public even though he is vaccinated. Which seems like using weasel words at best and plainly perjuring himself at worst. What??? It's WAS confusing and contradicting messages. You have several portions of the population who should still be wearing masks and social distancing. There's no way to regulate these rules so you're basically relying on the honor system. Also, that's not perjury unless you can provide evidence that he was outright lying about his reasoning. >You only get to spend so much of your credibility as a public official before it's gone. Even noble lies have a cost. There's no denying coming up with public messaging is tough. However, making changes upon new information is a GOOD thing. Fauci isn't perfect but he's done a good job handling this.


>He also stated early on his position that there was no evidence of any possibility of a lab leak origin for the virus, while his recently published email records indicating he had received credible communications from scientists there indicating the distinct possibility that the virus did indeed have markers of lab engineering for gain-of-function research. Fauci said he hadn't read the email as it was "overly long", but he did clearly receive it in spring of last year. You want to source that? I found a New York Post (shite source) article that kind of goes through that but there is very clearly some spin on their part and even they did not conclude that. They certainly implied it but that is about the level I would expect from them.


>New York Post (shite source) That's because it's not a source. No news outlet is a source. They get their information from a source and report it. If the last 5 years has taught any of us anything, it should be to check everyone's sources and not trust or distrust what is being reported based solely on what outlet is saying it.


The source would be the emails themselves but I do not feel like wading through 3600 pages of that. I do absolutely agree that you should check the source when possible.


All of these are bogus except for one, and even that is kind of suspect. I've heard the job of Public Health expert being described as basically trying to make it as easy as possible for people to make the right choices which will lead to the greatest mitigation of injury / death. So if public figures being seen wearing masks all the time, even in situations where it might not be explicitly necessary, leads to a meaningful uptick in people wearing masks in situations where it would actually make a difference, that's considered good Public Health policy. Rand Paul calling this "theater" is a weasley little dipshit way to undermine good Public Health policy during a global pandemic to score cheap political points. The word "theater" is a gross and intentional mischaracterization of the importance of public figures being seen wearing masks. The way Paul uses that word is very clearly meant to assert that wearing masks is meaningless/trivial/pointless, which is exactly what every anti-masker would be emphatically shouting from the rooftops if Anthony Fauci had agreed with Paul's miss characterization. "Masks are for SHEEP! They do NOTHING! Even Fauci admitted they are THEATER!" So obviously Anthony thought you couldn't agree to Rand Paul's characterization of wearing masks as "theater" because 1. It's totally an utterly false. 2. It would have real consequences in terms of increasing illness, injury, and death. And especially the second one goes completely contrary to Anthony Fauci's personal and professional mission is a Public Health professional. In fact I've never seen any evidence of anything that he's ever done that wasn't a calculated move into mitigate public injury illness and death. But Rand Paul is the exact opposite. He's actively trying to capitalize on the politicization anti-mask sentiment with a complete disregard for impact on public health and safety in order to score cheap political points which makes him a disgusting human being on a fundamental level. Regarding the China stuff, again, Trump already has his rabid supporters on the streets cracking open the skulls of 85 year old Chinese grandmas by calling COVID-19 the "China Virus" and the "Kung Flu". So even reporting that this virus MAY have come from China is the absence of hard evidence is a naked attempt to score political points with Trump supporters in complete disregard for the real tangible harm it causes to asian Americans and the country as a whole. It's irresponsible at best, and another disgusting display of putting personal political Capital over the health and safety if US citizens at worst. And lastly, Faici did absolutely say at the beginning of the pandemic individual people wearing masks out in public was not other necessary or even likely to help prevent the spread of COVID-19. At least one important thing to keep in mind though was that at this time 1. Faici DID say that anyone who tested positive for COVID-19, was around anyone who tested positive, had any symptoms, or was around anyone who had symptoms should be wearing a mask. His only caveat was that you probably didn't need to wear a mask just for something like going to the grocery store. 2. The rate of community spread was much much lower back then. So virtually all of the cases of COVID-19 were either in hospital settings or being passed between close friends and family. 3. We had no idea about the asymptomatic spread. At the time it was basically thought that most people who were infectious would have covid-19 symptoms, and this assumption is part of what drove early recommendations. But once we learned about the rate of asymptomatic cases and the rate of community spread exploded, the mask guidelines changed accordingly. So in a way I kind of think of this as the national weather service telling you on Monday that a hurricane is probably going to miss your house, then on Wednesday telling you that the path of the hurricane has changed and is now headed straight for you and that you need to evacuate. At no point are they deceiving you, and at no point does it make sense to disregard what they say. But you are correct, Fauci admitted that one of the early recommendations for people not to wear masks in public was based on an extreme PPE shortage. At a time when community spread was extremely low, and a mask worn by someone in some small town while they did their grocery shopping was unlikely to actually encounter an infectious person, and people were already hoarding obscene amounts of masks, and frontline healthcare workers who had hundreds of COVID-19 patients coughing directly into their face we're being forced to wear single-use disposable masks for days and weeks at a time. So Fauci just did the math and decided that it was more important for the doctors and nurses to have those masks than for them to sit in a hoarders shed next to $10,000 worth of Costco TP. So he made the choice to not be 100% honest because he knew that full honesty wood only rank the mask hoarding up to 11 likely leading to countless additional COVID-19 related injuries and fatalities. So at the very least, that's the starting point from which he needs to be judged, as man who puts public health and safety and the sanctity of human life above all else, even at times honesty itself. Any personally, I'm okay with it.


This is such a crock of shit.


God this is shallow. How is continuing to use masks while vaccinated to set an example “weasel words?” This information was shared wildly and commonly in the medical community. Very very early on in the vaccination rollout, doctors advised fellow medical personnel to continue to wear masks even after vaccination as they were among the very first to receive it and the act of not wearing masks while numbers were still climbing was a terrible precedent to set, and a loophole many fucking MQRQNS would attempt to exploit. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, and trying to insist that physicians and providers be overly cautious to set an example is somehow “sinister” would be hilarious if it wasn’t so deranged.


I'm not a conservative and I think he's a scumbag. Stop labeling people.


Why? Explain past headlines


Thank you!


he lied about masks and their effectiveness, and lied about the virus not coming from a lab. lies lies lies that is why they do not like him


Literally neither of those are true. I can hardly believe that the entertainers you got those ideas from really want to rehash all their greatest failures from last year once again, yet here we are. You're referencing the Fauci's emails from the recent publishing via the Freedom of Information Act request, right? None of the emails show either of the things you're talking about. Regarding masks, evidence on similar diseases had shown that they weren't very effective among americans (poor usage statistics, nonhygienic practices, etc.), and the scientific/medical community (Fauci included) were right to go with the evidence when we were first understanding the disease. The most prominent email of his going around was from January, whereas the CDC only revised their recommendations in March after new evidence for this specific disease showed a positive effect. You can literally just look up a timeline of public statements on the matter and see that this EXACT CONVERSATION was happening last year, but truth doesn't matter to the people whose entertainment programs you've been consuming. Regarding the lab leak, this follows the same patterns as above, but backwards. In the early days they thought the genome was suspicious (there's a published email about that), but they also raised caution IN THE SAME EMAIL saying that they were looking into it and that the opinion could change. The opinion *did* change, and the people involved published their study of it to that effect. The obsession you people have with Fauci is really just ridiculous at this point.


Trump lied more than 22,000 times on one term—more than any president in modern history and conservatives loved him. You’d think if conservatives thought Fauci was a liar, they’d love him more.


Calling Fauci a liar is a pretty bold statement to make. Maybe he has told some half-truths, who knows. I am not obsessed with the guy like some people seem to be. Whatever. But saying that conservatives don't like Fauci because he is a liar. Hoo boy. That's a doozy and a half. It's like somebody claiming trees are made of microwave ovens. Where do you start with that? And more importantly, should you even? Doesn't really seem like you should. Have a great weekend and may god have mercy on your soul.


He lied to Congress. Guy should be in jail.


Maybe it's cuz he funded the research in the first place. Look at Rand Paul and his uncovering of the gain of function research. It's obvious


You got that right.


*makes it about Trump when there’s nothing about Trump* Do you see how brainwashed you are? Legitimately can you understand why someone would be mad at Fauci? A guy who owns medical patents, a guy who is exposed as a hypocrite, a man who was paid more than ever the president. But he shouldn’t be called out when he lies? Instead turn it into “he doesn’t suck Trump nuts and that’s why people don’t like him” How simple are you?


yes!, trump had no affect on the virus he told us wasnt real... it was all faucis fault for telling conservatives they could drink bleach and suntan the virus away


All time favorite from last year. [https://i.imgur.com/wsnsxYL.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wsnsxYL.jpg)


Oh yeah, sure. The country that is covering up a massacre from 30 years ago and an ongoing genocide right now... is totally going to comply with this


I'm not sure what the hell he's expecting. It's just going to be more lies and coverups.


Should we just make China's job easy for them?


He did that last year when he said questioning if COVID escaped from a lab a conspiracy theory. Now China had a year to bury the evidence


Fauci never called it a conspiracy theory. What made things easier for then was when Trump removed our own epidemiologists from China shortly before the pandemic started. We would currently have a lot more evidence on the origins if he hadn't done that.


Likely wouldn't have spread as quickly either.


Can you cite a source where he called it a conspiracy theory?


He’s passing the buck and doing a limited hangout. “Well maybe it was actually from that lab in China (that got US funding to do shit to viruses that may have made them more deadly and infectious) but China won’t cooperate so I guess we’ll never know! Ain’t that a shame oh well!”


More chance for them to trip up if they are falsifying things.


Please give us a spreadsheet of data, and please don't heavily modify the results easily with cntrl+F replace. This is like the police asking a criminal to turn over evidence, please. This method doesn't work.


Nahhhh, their data is totally accurate, remember they had an almost perfect quadratic COVID growth?


OMG china shills in full mode here


Their internet army is vast People’s Liberation Shitposters


Be an interesting experiment if they allowed Reddit users to selectively filter content from regions. E.g.: do not display if country = Russia, China, or known-VPN endpoint.


with some newly made up assertions too! ccp tries to get anything to stick, they are like the manatees from that south park episode that writes family guy.


I call it the Chinese shotgun approach. Throw literally every excuse out there until something sticks, and if that doesn’t work kidnap dissidents and shoot them in the face with a shotgun.


when i saw so many comments like this here, i knew the sub couldn't be worldnews. you'd be banned already.


Probably less than normal. VPNs in China are having difficulty right now since it being the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square Massacre and all


I see as many conservative shills


We still have a lot of political polarized monkeys that will say China is ok because Trump was mean to them as well. I really don't understand swinging from any political party's fuzzies so hard.


I see way more conservative shills to be honest.


Lol, one year ago the news and reddit ridiculed the thought of even questioning this. Oh how the turn tables.


And now the bio weapon strawman arguments are out to protect their initial positions that the lab leak was a conspiracy theory. When we have zero evidence of the origins of covid, why rule any possibility out? That never made sense to me, nor did the politicization of the subject into a left wing -right wing thing.


That was back when the science was totally settled about it not being a lab leak. Now that it's unsettled it's okay to consider the lab leak idea again. /s


It's interesting looking back on the posts that confidently dismissed this idea https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did_not_come_from_the_wuhan_institute_of/


The dude even lists the evidence he needs to change his view and workers getting sick was the 2nd most important piece to change said view. This is how science works


It was shitty science though. > I am very confident that SARS-CoV-2 has no connection to the Wuhan Institute of Virology or any other laboratory. Not genetic engineering, not intentional evolution, not an accidental release. The most plausible scenario, by a landslide, is that SARS-CoV-2 jumped from a bat (or other species) into a human, in the wild.


It's (D)ifferent now


It was never off the table but the people who thought it was from a lab thought it was intentionally released as a weapon. And most of those people also argued that it was a bad cold and no big deal for some reason. ​ A deadly bio weapon released by evil Chinese communists that just gives people a bad cold.


No, they didn’t. The media misinterpreted it that way. Obviously it wasn’t some purposely engineered bioweapon - first off, that’s ridiculous, and second, why would they unleash it on their own people?


I mean China is actively killing its own people as we speak.


True - they have more efficient ways than an indiscriminate virus.


No, that was a tiny subset of people. There was an entire blackout amongst scientific communities in relation to this discussion. You couldn't even tell people to consider a potential lab leak a year ago without being labeled a conspiracy theorist despite the fact that the outbreak originated in one of the three places in the world that studies these viruses. One thing that seems to have passed the publics eye is the US was helping to fund and was very interested in the research in Wuhan and there's your smoking gun or whatever they say. It's a huge irresponsible fuck up and scientists back in the early 2000s were screaming about the dangers of this happening especially after the coronavirus SARS escaped the lab(4 times!) If you think about it its much more worrying if it did originate from wildlife, but of course no one will admit it because no one wants to be responsible for the death of 3,721,251 and counting and the huge myriad of effects we have seen amongst people who have had it from heart issues to permanent cognitive deficiencies. Had they admitted their guilt, had there been a response straight away instead of a cover up, there would have been a vaccine much sooner.


>There was an entire blackout amongst scientific communities What scientific communities are you rolling in?


>No, that was a tiny subset of people Liar. 30% of the country still believes it's man made. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/04/08/nearly-three-in-ten-americans-believe-covid-19-was-made-in-a-lab/


Man made does not equal released on purpose. Those can be mutually exclusive


Not really. I once made a comment that alluded to the possibility of this virus makes the jump to human because it was mishandled in the lab and it got downvoted, even though I also pointed this out along with the possibility that it might simply be that it would first be detected around a virology lab because it would be specially adept at knowing what they were working with. Reddit is the astrosurfing home of the Internet nowadays, so it's not really rocket science why it might have been.


There was tons of people on here and Imgur suggesting it was intentionally released to bring an end to the Hong Kong uprisings.


Except the only people who said China did it intentionally were either nutjobs or people intentionally discrediting lab leak theories. Imo it's been fairly obvious from day one China leaked it accidently - they have a track record of not following BSL procedures.


Nope, it was any lab leak theory that was ridiculed https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30418-9/fulltext “We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin” This basically shut down the lab leak theory for a year. That Peter Daszak? Who assembled this statement? Who ends the statement with “we declare no competing interests”? President of EcoHealth Alliance that funds this gain of function research all over the world. The definition of a “competing interest”. Listen, most everyone just bought into this last year. Why would scientists lie? Now journalists feel free to re-examine their priors. Let’s encourage that spirit, but don’t pretend the lab leak hypothesis wasn’t rained down upon with scorn from our elites. Let’s start re-examining All our priors more often, and expecting it of others.


The current lab leak theory is still a natural origin as they were researching viruses that occur in the wild


Yes, but my assertion is that Any lab leak theory was dismissed as conspiracy for about a year https://www.businessinsider.com/wapo-corrects-article-describing-wuhan-lab-leak-claim-as-conspiracy-theory-2021-6 and investigations along this line were intentionally impeded https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins


You keep posting the same thing over and over over on your relatively inactive account. How much did this account cost you?


Look at the age of the account, I’m just general lurker who happened to have info for this one post, and it should get visibility. Dismissing this hypothesis because it was politically convenient is a scandal. I strongly condemn any conspiracy theories regarding the unnatural origin of this account.


holy! the goal posts by liberals have moved!


Reminds me of Donald *demanding* he get credit for the vaccine for the disease he publicly said was just like the flu


Exactly. Some people weirdly like to make sure criticisms are evidenced based. If it originated in a lab, then fine. Not sure how that changes like everything else about it. Still deadly. But most (if not all) theories I saw about that were talking about it being released as a weapon. If I thought aliens were real because they give me happy ending massages every night, do I get to say "told you so!" to everyone if aliens do in fact exist?


Here's the problem with having such a lying, incompetent, divisive, self-aggrandizing shit-for-brains as a leader: You can't trust anything that comes out of his mouth. For example, the shit-for-brains in question first said it was Democrat hoax, then said Covid would magically disappear, then further politicized the issue by denigrating masks, and we're still dealing with these defiant morons today, thereby extending the problem beyond what it needs to be. In the meantime, more than half a million Americans died. So sorry if we had a problem with the self-promoting fuckstick who had already blamed Jyna for his fucking self-caused trade war when he said yet something else that had no evidence behind it at the time.


> For example, the shit-for-brains in question first said it was Democrat hoax https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-remark/ False. However, the shit-for-brains description is still true, and the rest of the things you said were true.


>Covid would magically disappear "I've put Mike Pence in charge of taking care of the virus, he has a lot of experience here, I'm sure it will be gone by the weekend"


Ya. There is now some evidence supporting this. I can also go running around and scream MURDERER at everyone. If I happen to get it right through luck one time is no time to crow about it.


Crazy how evidence will convince people when bigotry didn't


It wasn’t bigotry to point out that Wuhan, the epicenter of the outbreak, has a lab dedicated to studying coronavirus. And since the initial outbreak, it had been said again, and again by officials, that this coronavirus has elements that don’t appear to be natural. Hypothesizing that it might have leaked out of the lab, due to mishandling, was not a huge leap. Stop with the buzzwords, and admit to yourself that you may have been wrong.


Because back then all we had to go on were crackpot conspiracy theories.


And Occam's razor... When a novel coronavirus emerges in the same neighborhood of an institute that researches novel coronaviruses, it doesn't make any sense to outright dismiss it as the origin.


Counterpoint: you tend to do your virus research in the place where the virus naturally occurs. I'm more likely to do build an Ebola research center in Zaire than New Zealand. So a coincidence isn't so far fetched here.


This is nonsense. The WIV is in a modern high tech city nowhere near the location of bats whose viruses they study. They are literally hundreds or thousands of miles away. The idea that it’s located in a hub of coronaviruses is nonsense. Nationally speaking it’s located in the right location for that but geographically it’s really not. China is fucking big you know? You don’t need to locate a research center at the location you get a lot of your samples samples. There is literally no reason when you can transport them easily in the modern day


Hang on I thought the Chinese lab theory was a racist conspiracy theory? What happened?


Biden does not need to worry about votes anymore?


Well merely calling it the Chinese virus was deemed racist and conspiratory here in the uk too, and we didn’t have an election last year…


China is going to do the responsible thing, and release the workers full unabridged medical records. I'm sure they understand how important it is to get to the bottom of the origins of COVID 19. ^^^^/s






Yeah the country that started the pandemic and has spent the last 18 months trying to cover up their incompetency is definitely going to comply lmfao. Of all the wet markets in China, this virus just happened to cross over into humans in the nearest city to China's BSL3 lab which specifically studies bat coronaviruses sampled from all across Asia. Western scientists published concerns in Nature about WIV's safety protocols just a few years ago after a different Chinese lab accidently created a SARS epidemic - a virus which is essentially a cousin to covid19.


Plain and simple, after the lancet statement was put out with little to no scientific backing it shut down any attempt to connect this to a lab leak. Anyone who floated the idea was labeled xenophobic, a conspiracy theorist and a morally bankrupt individual. Now I'm not talking about a weapon being released like Bannon suggested, just that the leak was from a lab instead of a cross species transference from a wet market. Fauci testified on May 12th last year that the us had never funded the Wuhan virology lab, but we had. A broken clock is right twice a day, and the fact that before ex cdc directors were receiving death threats for voicing the possibility that it was a lab accident that released it is ridiculous. I don't expect to see anyone apologize for telling people they were racist and stupid for suggesting this theory when the scientific community had outright rejected it without looking into it which the media then parroted. I just didn't expect to see so much mental gymnastics for people trying to explain away why they did it, and why they still do it. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57352992 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57268111


So I’ve been making the same assertion, that the lancet article shut down inquiry and equated it to xenophobia. However, people are pointing to one thing: “We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin... and they overwhelmingly conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife” People are saying: natural origin doesn’t mean it couldn’t have escaped from a lab. This dismisses man made virus, not lab leak. Sorry you can’t read. Am I crazy? That is not how this lancelet article was read when it was released. It was read as an indictment on any lab leak theory, right? Any good comebacks to that? Citing stories that call any lab leak theory a conspiracy don’t work.


Imagine if Trump was still president everyone would be calling his administration anti Asian 🙄




Well at least we can talk about it on Facebook now.


'lab leak' doesn't necessarily mean 'lab made', right?


No they didn't. Fauci said a lab leak was unlikely due to the lack of evidence at the time (that's how science works), and Biden said even less on the origins. We still aren't even sure of the origins because no smoking gun has been found to support any theory. The conspiracy theory accusations were pointed at baseless claims of Covid-19 being an engineered bioweapon. People are now trying to act like they're now being exonerated for this.


But they literally did. They had zero evidence for their claims but ridiculed theories on the virus's origins that they disagreed with. That is not science. Science would've been: "We have no evidence for it leaking from a lab, but we will investigate." Instead we got "Look at these crazy 5G flat earthers thinking it leaked out of a lab." And now... Here we are.


Show me evidence of Fauci or Biden calling an accidental lab leak a conspiracy theory. The conspiracy theory is the idea that it was man made, which 30% of Americans believe. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/04/08/nearly-three-in-ten-americans-believe-covid-19-was-made-in-a-lab/


Not Fauci, but one of his buds. Here you go https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30418-9/fulltext “We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin” This basically shut down the lab leak theory for a year. That Peter Daszak? Who assembled this statement? Who ends the statement with “we declare no competing interests”? President of EcoHealth Alliance that funds this gain of function research all over the world. The definition of a “competing interest”. Listen, most everyone just bought into this last year. Why would scientists lie? Now journalists feel free to re-examine their priors. Let’s encourage that spirit, but don’t pretend the lab leak hypothesis wasn’t rained down upon with scorn from our elites. Let’s start re-examining All our priors more often, and expecting it of others.


Natural origin means it wasn't man made, not that the spread started from nature.


This statement quickly followed the emergence of a lab leak hypothesis, and so seems like a direct response to That. I certainly could be reading it incorrectly, but given his continued hesitancy on seriously investigating the idea of a lab leak and his glaring conflict of interest, it feels naive to try to carry water for his semantic intentions


That seems like bullshit. The paper came out in march, a period in which the pandemic was starting to take root in America. There were many claims coming out at that time, trying to tie it to a specific one is reaching. Also he goes on to mention that the genome had been analyzed and found to be natural, which means if it's connected to any one theory, it's the man made one. Keep in mind he is using precise language here, he didn't say the pandemic started from wildlife, but that the virus did. Do you have a source on his "hesitancy"? What is his conflict on interest?


I did mention conflict of interest in original comment. Peter Daszak is the president of EcoHealth Alliance, which gives money to gain of function research all over the world, including the Wuhan lab. He initiated this statement to the Lancet. In December 2019 he talks about the gain of function research happening at Wuhan. https://principia-scientific.com/who-official-wuhan-lab-tampering-with-virus-before-pandemic/ This Lancet piece was published 2/19/20, days after Tom Cotton became a prominent voice for investigating a lab leak (he gave his remarks 2/16/20. And note he in no insinuated it was an intentional bio weapon). Peter Daszak was the only American scientist China let investigate with WHO earlier this year where a laboratory origin of the pandemic (not virus, pandemic) was considered “extremely unlikely”, with the recommended follow up being “regular administrative and internal review” (compared to his other recommendations, which included tracking frozen food supply all across the world). As Peter released this whitewashed report, Dr. Tedris (WHO Director-General) says “However, I do not believe that this [laboratory incident] assessment was extensive enough.. Although the team concluded that a lab leak hypothesis is the least likely hypothesis, this requires further investigation.” https://www.who.int/director-general/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-remarks-at-the-member-state-briefing-on-the-report-of-the-international-team-studying-the-origins-of-sars-cov-2


I disagree. Although that was one of the 3 lab theories, all 3 were lumped as “conspiracy theories”. Take a look https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/05/25/timeline-how-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-suddenly-became-credible/


I've read that article before, and I'm surprised you arrived at that conclusion. The article is full of examples of scientists leaving open the possibility of an accidental lab leak, even if it wasn't the leading hypothesis at the time. Also, from your own article: >Jan. 26: The Washington Times [publishes an article](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/26/coronavirus-link-to-china-biowarfare-program-possi/) with the headline: “Coronavirus may have originated in lab linked to China’s biowarfare program.” An editor’s note is added March 25: “Since this story ran, scientists outside of China have had a chance to study the SARS-CoV-2 virus. They concluded it does not show signs of having been manufactured or purposefully manipulated in a lab.” The conspiracy theory was rampant in the early days of the pandemic. Sure The Washington Times, one of the largest right leaning publications in the country btw, edited the article 2 months after the fact, but the damage had already been done. And now a lot of people still believe it that it was a manufactured bioweapon. Hell, I even saw at least one comment in this very thread claiming it was intentional. Trump didn't help the fact by being intentionally vague about its origins either. The leader of the birther conspiracy movement should have made it crystal clear that he meant "accidental lab leak from scientists studying bats" if he didn't want the general public to assume he may have meant "intentional leak" or "manufactured virus".


Why are we pretending to give him any sort of leeway with 'if he had done it this way then maybe...'. We know he was lying to the public in order to distract from his poor handling of the pandemic. It was obvious. We can't fall for this inaccurate revisionist history that somehow he was on to something. He made it up, much like how he made up tons of things. He was the Liar President.


> Trump didn't help the fact by being intentionally vague about its origins either. Trump only cared about where it came from to get the heat off him. If it came from France he would have called it the French Virus or if it came from Brazil he would have called it the Brazilian Virus. When reporters were asking basic questions about when he knew and why he didnt prepare he would redirect the conversation to blaming China and saying if they had alerted us earlier we could have prepared. China alerted the WHO in early January and the response from Trump was to spin it into fake news and a conspiracy against him. His administration had several months to prepare and they did nothing. It was only after it became too big of a problem to ignore that he finally waddled onto the national stage. And if people remember correctly, his first national address wasnt about the trouble we were heading into. He started blaming Europe.


Great article that goes against your point. People claimed it with no evidence, then people claimed it with evidence. What about that is unclear?


Here you go https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30418-9/fulltext “We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin” This basically shut down the lab leak theory for a year. That Peter Daszak? Who assembled this statement? Who ends the statement with “we declare no competing interests”? President of EcoHealth Alliance that funds this gain of function research all over the world. The definition of a “competing interest”. Listen, most everyone just bought into this last year. Why would scientists lie? Now journalists feel free to re-examine their priors. Let’s encourage that spirit, but don’t pretend the lab leak hypothesis wasn’t rained down upon with scorn from our elites. Let’s start re-examining All our priors more often, and expecting it of others.


I found this article on how genetic manipulation might be detected interesting: https://futurehuman.medium.com/how-do-we-know-if-a-virus-is-bioengineered-541ff6f8a48f


> due to the lack of evidence at the time There's also still no evidence *now*. This whole resurgence of activity is 100% spectacle, 0% content, and stems from the recent publishing of a bunch of emails from Fauci as part of a sweeping Freedom of Information Act request. There's nothing new or damning in the documents, they all match previous public statements, but that doesn't stop entertainers and corrupt politicians from taking advantage of the publication to try to pretend that something new is happening. It's just repeating the same failures that fucked their reputation last year, only louder.


>Fauci said a lab leak was unlikely due to the lack of evidence at the time (that's how science works) So show me the scientific evidence that *this specific virus* jumped naturally to humans from animals. EDIT: Two responses so far. First dishonestly pretends I was asking for scientific evidence of "certainty," which I 100% did not. Second is from an account that hasn't posted in this sub ***in over four months*** dishonestly pretending that I claimed covid-19 was a purposely manipulated virus. Nothing strange about that at all... You'd think if my question was so unreasonable or out of touch, people wouldn't need to immediately jump to complete bullshit to try and address it.


Nobody, not even the WHO, has said that was the case with certainly. It's merely the most likely scenario based on what we know about coronaviruses and where the earliest known cases came from. If and when we get more evidence, regardless of what hypothesis it supports, we'll update accordingly. That's how science works.


WHO concluded that the leak is "extremely unlikely" with no evidence to support this conclusion. See https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/who-convened-global-study-of-origins-of-sars-cov-2-china-part . Their investigation didn't consider lab leak hypothesis seriously.


If you read between the lines, I thing who was saying 'further research into the lab leak theory isn't gonna be fruitful, because no way is China going to go along. Since China won't cooperate with lab inspection etc, there's no reason to continue the research" >However, the findings suggest that the laboratory incident hypothesis is extremely unlikely to explain introduction of the virus into the human population, and therefore is not a hypothesis that implies to suggest future studies into our work, to support our future work, into the understanding of the origin of the virus”, Dr. Embarek said. 


We have investigated our donors and found that they did nothing wrong.


https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9 This article suggests that covid-19 is not a purposefully manipulated virus. I have no skin in this game, but there is legit research out there….


This article points out that it's unlike that DNA sequence was manipulated directly. But that doesn't disprove lab leak hypothesis. DNA sequence manipulation is not the only way to create a new virus. Specifically, serial passage experiments on human tissue can create new virus that can infect humans. This doesn't even require DNA sequencing. And we know that serial passage experiments with coronaviruses were performed in the Wuhan lab. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_passage


We can effectively rule out gain of function research as a source for the virus because there's never been a similar reported coronavirus. You wouldn't go through all that effort to evolve a virus without a well characterized starting point. That's a massive amount of data these labs aren't just going to sit on. The point is to publish after all.


Exactly. Reddit has the memory of a goldfish and the drive for drama of The Jerry Springer Show.


thats not the truth of what happened.


A bit late for all that, no?


Fauci is racist!! That’s how this works right?


What a hypocrite bitch. It's racist to FoLlOw ThE sCiEnCe when Trump is president. What a fucking joke.


: laughs in CCP: Which Wuhan lab? We had an arsonist in the area that caused alot of issues. Dont worry, he’s been caught!


Wait, I thought it was a dangerous nutjob conspiracy to even insinuate Covid may have came from a Wuhan lab? Twitter was even banning people for suggesting this not long ago. Then again in recent days the media is reporting the US government is taking UFO aliens seriously, that maybe Covid expert Bill Gates had a closer relationship to Jeffrey Epstein than previously reported, oh and maybe Fauci himself is possibly linked to the funding and coverup of the Wuhan lab leak with Gain of Function research. CNN tonight said that a certain former game show turned President thinks he will be reinstated as President, so maybe we live in upside down world


The nutjob conspiracy theory was that it was a man made bioweapon, which [30% of Americans STILL believe](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/04/08/nearly-three-in-ten-americans-believe-covid-19-was-made-in-a-lab/), despite no evidence of it.


Did he email them? That should work.


Let me ask anyone this: if we somehow find evidence that the virus leaked out of a lab on purpose or accidentally, would it change anything? I don't think saber rattling war would occur would it?


Probably not. I think the most important thing is to find out where it came from so humanity can learn from any potential mistakes. Some weird and obsessed people want war, but it isn't going to happen.


Funny how when orange man was in office the idea of covid coming out of a lab was crazy


We would know a lot more about the origins of the Covid-19 virus if Trump didn't [pull our epidemiologists and other health officials](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-cdc-exclusiv-idUSKBN21C3N5) from China not long before it started spreading. Now, who knows if we'll ever truly find out the origin.


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Stunning and brave


His credibility is gone, Faucis credibility disappear when he agreed to be a signatory in feb 2020 to the lancet "open letter" which "strongly condemned" the "conspricacy theories" about the Wuhan lab leak theory and which was penned by a Western scientist who worked closely with the Wuhan lab before the outbreak. He needs to step down immediately


This guys a joke. Zero trust


Yeah! Why don't we listen to the guy who said it was just a flu that'll be gone be easter 2020 instead, *he* wasn't a joke! He stared down a solar eclipse out of sheer bravery and not at all because he has the mental capacity of a toddler!


A wild whataboutism appears! No one was talking about Trump, this is about Fauci


More than one person can be incompetent


Trump is an idiot but Fauci didn’t handle this well either.


Fauci gets the report....... The report: Redacted


So much like Epstein “proved” pizzagate for a bunch of people, a Wuhan lab leak will somehow “prove“ that this was an intentionally released bioweapon to the same kind of people. Conspiracy theorists will take any shred of truth in their claims and say that validates their whole idea.


Hahaha, good luck Fauci. You might as well put a peice of coal up you know where and crap out a diamond.


That could probably happen though. The man has been under a lot of pressure.


The US has amazing intelligence.. this isn’t just speculation on their part.... the know what happened and are waiting for China to prove otherwise..... with that said Its kinda stinking like Covid-19 escaped from a lab...


Now? Lol. Give me a fucking break. He's know EXACTLY what happened the entire time while he lied to our faces.


China's been asking for the medical records of the US military members who got sick while attending the Wuhan Games in October 2019 so I'm sure a trade could be made.


imagine if Fauci didnt get caught up in the glitz and glamour of being a political warrior against trump and just did this (his job) from the very beginning... imagine fauci asking for the damn medical records back in January or February 2020! instead of the media calling us all xenophobic idiots and racists for even thinking it?


Thanks for your timely action Fauci. What an asshole.


I remember when the Trump admin was saying the virus most likely came from a Chinese Lab and the liberal media screamed to the heavens of racism. The media is such a joke.


What gives us grounds to do that, though? If China asked for the medical records of our private citizens we would tell them to fuck off, and rightly so


On the grounds of epidemiological research to better understand the origins and spread of the pandemic among its first patients. I don't think names or anything should be released but it would be helpful to have that data. I'm sure it's long been destroyed.


It’s not like he’s issuing a subpoena. He’s saying that they should release it because it’s the right thing to do, which it is. What “grounds” do you need to say what should be done?


We're not in the spotlight for starting a global pandemic that has killed millions.


ccp has already downloaded Americas medical records.


The fact that a global pandemic started in part of their country...? Of course, they can say fuck off, and probably will - but it's not like we're unwarrantedly just asking for information of their private citizens.


The media is self-flagellating over the story shifting from "not really possible" to "can't rule it out but still unlikely and still no real proof", meanwhile Republican talking points have mutated it into a certainty.


I'm sure China, the country that lied about this every step of the way, will cooperate in this 13th hour.


Yeah. I totally trust Fauci wasn’t involved now. I’m convinced. In other news, 3 Chinese scientists have gone missing.


Fauci is fake like most of them there


Woulda been helpful a year ago... Fauci for prison.


But Trump was xenophobic and racist calling it the Wuhan Flu remember kids?


Fuck Fauci the evil Asshole


All evidence was destroyed a long time ago, while we were deciding whether it was racist or not to discuss. Great job guys.


Evidence would have been destroyed immediately. It was always a possibility but could never and I think will never be proven.


Good point - Guess I’m trying to say that it seems like we might have wasted precious time while debating political correctness.


Isn’t this to late? By now all evidence is wiped.


Just don't question it. Keep calling it the Trump virus instead.


I guess you should always shoot your shot but this just feels silly


I feel like I'm in a thread with a bunch of nut jobs that can't read. The article clearly states that Fauci believes in zooanautic transmission, and not in a lab leak. There was a big flu in China at the time, so a couple scientists getting sick really means nothing. You can either believe there is a huge conspiracy and all these scientists who are well known in the field are lying, and that none of these scientists who just love to make things public have leaked this conspiracy, or you can believe that the virus came from animals like many many viruses have in the past. If you look at the sequence of SARS2, you would see that no virologist would design a virus like that, and if you ask any virologist if it could plausibly be human designed they'd laugh in your face.


Both things can be true...it can originate in animals, and have leaked from the lab due to poor safety protocols. No need to call people "nut jobs" for the crime of thinking differently from you regarding unanswered questions surrounding the most serious pandemic in the past century