7-Eleven to install 500 EV charging stations by the end of 2022
By - standbyforskyfall
I wonder when Flying J, Pilot and other national truck stop/travel centers will get in on this? Seems like a missed opportunity.
That’s where I think the real opportunity is. Truck stops are already set up to handle 30-45 minutes downtime for a charge.
I don’t want to spend 30-45 minutes for a fucking charge when I can gas and go in 5 minutes. But if I do...I’d much rather have some awesome Pilot coffee and an actual place to hangout.
Not standing around the roller grill in a 7-11.
Here’s the thing, if you are in a hurry in an electric car, your stops will be like 15 minutes, which really isn’t bad considering you may want to use the restroom, buy a snack, and rest your legs. The thing people forget about batteries is they charge faster when empty, so if you want to get somewhere quick, you generally operate 10-60% with 15 minute breaks, instead of 10-100% and hour long breaks, if you aren’t in a hurry, then yeah, stop somewhere comfortable for an hour long sit down meal. Source: have done 1,100 miles in an EV in a day.
I haven’t used an EV....so I’ll admit ignorance when it comes to charging times.
admitting ignorance? sir... this is a reddit... we don’t do that here.
Yes, you're supposed to admit OTHER people's ignorance. I'm pretty sure that's on like page 327 of the Terms and Conditions you agreed to when you signed up.
I’m an EV owner. I bet I spend less time charging than an average driver spends going to gas stations. This is because at some point you’ll understand the car is like the smartphone in your hand. You don’t go somewhere special to charge if, you have a charger at home and unless you’re driving 200+ miles in a single day you can always charge to full over night.
The only times I supercharge are on long roadtrips which I’ve done all over the west coast this year, and as mentioned you charge for 15-35 minutes to get to the next stop. Usually I fit in the souvenir shopping, grabbing food or drinks, groceries, stretch, use the bathroom in those stops which are 2-2.5 hours apart.
> You don’t go somewhere special to charge if, you have a charger at home and unless you’re driving 200+ miles in a single day you can always charge to full over night.
Most people do NOT have chargers at home. Almost no apartment complexes have chargers.
There are many instances where it’s impossible to drive from home to your destination and make it within a single charge. Like from Atlanta to Panama City Florida.
10-60% of most batteries still only puts you with an operational range of about 200 miles on the best battery packs commercially available. Add in environmental losses, and your realistically talking about a 130-160 mile working range for most EVs on the market. So, that’s 15-ish minutes of downtime (assuming you aren’t waiting for a charger when you get to the charging station) about every 2-2.5 hours of driving.
No one is taking hour long breaks on a road trip, you get up, walk around, go to the bathroom, and grab a drink/food. 10 minutes tops, and then you keep driving for up to 4 hours.
IMO this is why PHEVs hold a significant edge compared to BEVs, for short distances you get the benefit of an EV but you also get the utility of still being able to comparatively quickly cover much longer distances using existing infrastructure.
You’re not wrong. But for the vast majority of motorist use cases, 200 miles range is going to be plenty for daily commute. EV are currently in a price bracket where spending 2k to install a lvl 3 charger at home is not out of reach for most owners. EV ownership is not a great option if you live in an apartment building or need to travel 200+ a day. Like you say phev is king in that regard.
It really depends on the target audience.
If you are regularly driving 200-300miles in a single ride, this is not the car for you. Maybe in the future, there will be option to add additional powerbank to the car.
Otherwise, this is more suited for city driving. I would wager that majority of urban people lives within 50-100miles of their workplace.
Maybe someone should tell that to the manufacturers and governments that keep crowing about going all electric.
> Maybe someone should tell that to the manufacturers and governments that keep crowing about going all horseless.
If r/cars were around in 1899. /s
While I see the /s, the horse comparison is an incredibly poor comparison. There was never a point in US history that the vast majority of households owned 1-2 horses. The shift to EV will come, but it is going to be much slower than any of the "journalists", governments, or companies say it will.
I hydrate constantly, 2 hours between bathroom breaks is about what I average anyway.
But seriously, buy stock in Nestle.
Leave with 300 miles from home, charge back up to 200 miles. That's 500 miles with a 15 min (charging times may vary) stop. I think I'd be making more than one stop for 15 mins in 500 miles. I think the biggest problem would be if all the chargers were in use and you had to wait behind someone for 30mins, then charge.
Isnt doing that worse for the battery capacity over time, though?
oof. downvoted for asking a good question
so lithium batteries get permanently damaged when you overcharge or drain them too low. but that will never happen because of all the fancy battery monitoring. there is also reserve capacity to make up for wear over 5, 10, 15, etc years.
as far as battery wear, being closer to the extremes wears out the battery faster. so a fully charged battery will wear out faster than a partially discharged one. that is why many lithium chargers have storage mode. it doesn't fully charge the battery. that is also why some laptops give you the options not the fully charge the battery if it's always plugged in.
charging rate also matters. faster charging = more heat = more wear. constantly fast charging your phone battery will cause it to wear out faster.
Shouldn’t be much worse than taking half as many longer stops and charging all the way to 100%, and this is only relevant to road trips, which are relatively rare. For everyday usage I charge to 80% nightly in my garage which is more than enough to get through the day (~250 miles). Things that are bad for batteries: sitting full, sitting empty, charging fast, discharging fast. Relatively easy to avoid the first three in everyday use, but that instant torque is addictive, which makes the 4th hard to avoid, if only in short bursts!
Exactly. Almost every truck stop has a Denny's or McDonald's or some restaurant chain connected to it. They're usually very clean places so why not stop for a bite while you're charging?
I was driving through the Czech Republic about 12 years ago and almost every roadside McDonald's had a charging station. That was TWELVE years ago! Of course the highway systems there are so different from here. In the US you have to get off the highway. There, you just slip off to the side and slip back on.
The other question would be state welcome centers. It's some law that you can't have fuel stations with them or any commerce actually because it would look like the state was playing favorites but if a company can sponsor a stadium why not sponsor a welcome center? **Mercedes Florida Welcome Center**
Off the road stops exist in the USA as well, especially on toll roads. There convenient but they also charge quite a bit more for gas and food. I would imagine they would charge quite a lot for charging your car as well.
Oh yeah. I've seen them too. I imagine that they have people by the short and curlies when you're on a toll road like that. Captive audience I think is what it's called. :)
> Exactly. Almost every truck stop has a Denny's or McDonald's or some restaurant chain connected to it. They're usually very clean places so why not stop for a bite while you're charging?
Because I've just ate lunch on my previous stop while it was charging.
Depends on where you are. I'm a truck driver and finding a truck stop with an actual restaurant is really hard tbh. It may be because when I was OTR I ran the northeast a lot but most of the time, I could never seem to find one with a restaurant especially during the pandemic when they shut down a lot.
20min is the longest i've spent at a charge stop. 10% -> 80%
Oh this could be big for restaurants too
I've driven up and down the coast in an EV, both winter and summer, and stops are typically around 20 minutes.
Or maybe just improve battery technology to the point where it’s the same amount of time as refueling a gasoline car.
Think about the 2011 Nissan Leaf vs electric cars today in terms of range and charging times. Huge improvement in 10 years time. Imagine how much more improvement will occur 14 years from now for the (supposed) 2035 goal!
The energy output of charging a 100+KWh battery in under 5 minutes would be absolutely insane. That would need a complete revamp of the electrical grid near such charging stations. We’re talking several MWh of energy per charging station.
You'd need a 1.3 mW feed....per car......(w/93% charge efficiency)
Actually you'd need more than that because the battery charge rate goes down if you pass like 20% charge. You'd need to AVERAGE a 1.3 mW rate, so approx double that for initial power?
You'd probably need a small fleet of shipping container sized standby generators to do this
probably need a recirculating water tower to hooK up to the car to cool the battery too....
Let’s just put a nuclear plant at every charging hub. Problem solved.
You say “just improve battery technology” like they have t thought about that. You are dealing with massive amounts of electricity transferring very quickly. There’s a lot of physics involved here and making something work for the mainstream takes awhile. You don’t “just improve battery technology” overnight .
To be fair he did say 14 years from now. Not like they expected it over night.
Daimler opened their first electric semi charging station in Portland recently.
I’m a local truck driver. I’d absolutely love an electric semi. I’ve seen a few of Daimler’s test trucks rolling around Portland, so for short haul I imagine we’re maybe a year or two off.
The chargers will be ["ICEd" by pickup truck drivers.](https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/ram-truck-with-tesla-charger-in-tailpipe-shows-ice-ing-trend-not-over/amp)
>These days, more than anything it seems like a plea for attention, since, largely, nobody cares.
I've been driving an EV daily for five years and I can count the number of times I've seen this by PU drivers with big ol' trucks with "hostile signage" on one hand with fingers to spare.
It's far more often just schmos in Altimas or some dippy in their Rover who are oblivious or insane or the type of person who enjoyed parking in handicapped spots and getting away with it before, or God knows why. Some lady who worked at the Starbucks down the street from me did it, habitually parked her old Cherokee XJ in the fuckin' customer charger spot until they canned her over it; God knows why she did it or whether there was any deeper meaning to it, she seemed to have had all the political interest or acumen of one of those spinach wraps they serve. Maybe just because the spot was in front of the door and she liked it.
I've never worked a job that deals with the public in which employees were allowed to park in the front row at all. Even if it wasn't an EV charging parking space, parking in the front row when you're parking for 8 hours is poor manners.
That charger was a bit of a racket anyway, it wasn't installed by the Starbucks it was installed by the mall property management company, likely just to get a tax kickback. They should never have installed it right in front of the damn door , but they were too cheap to run an electrical conduit across the (small!) parking lot to a more appropriate location.
Once it was installed property management didn't give a shit about it and it was often out of order. I suspect it's possible the employees hated dealing with the thing and the drama it occasionally caused and having to field questions about why it was out of order half the time. I don't like parking my car to charge right in front anyway with people gawping and bumping into it with their coffee and whacking it with their door as they jump out to run in for mobile orders.
Lousy location, it rapidly made my shit list anyway and I stopped bothering with it. Telsa has the advantage that most of their chargers tend not to be in brain-dead locations, the same can't be said for some other types.
How much does it cost to fill up at a charging station?
I don't own a Tesla and my Gen 2 Volt plug-in hybrid has a small pack so it varies from the third party-chargers, anywhere from $0 to "too much to bother" as the rate tends to be set by whomever owns the property its on and installed it, and it can be whatever. They can ding you for the parking if they want, too.
That Sbux charger and most of the ones I use when I do are the Level 2 which top out at 6.6kW and around here businesses often give you two hours on that "free" then raise the hourly rate to like $5 to prevent people camping it. Unfortunately the car's internal charger tops out at 3.5kW, it's already old tech, except on the 2019 where they bumped it to 7.2, so in my 2017 (had a 2015 before that) I can't even take full advantage of it.
I rarely full-charge at public chargers though, it's a nice bonus but the Volt's pack is so small charging at home off a 120 volt wall socket like a Dustbuster is fine, it charges up full overnight for like a dollar and good for 40-70 miles range season-dependent before you have to run on gas. There's a totally "free" charger down the street from where my girlfriend lives at a utility company office, open to the public to use, so sometimes I grab a full charge off of that.
More modern DC fast chargers are much quicker but that car is 2012 tech so they had to cut the price down somehow. In a few years everything sold is going to be DC fast charge with like 300 miles range so aside from the small market of plug-in hybrids like me those Level 2 chargers are already getting to be like rotary phones, too slow.
Thanks for your response. I didn't see anyone mention this here or in the article but if 7-eleven is installing these stations I figured they are doing it for future revenue.
I've tended to think "charging stations" are a bit of a gimmick. You've got cars coming online with 300, maybe 400 miles range that will charge at home overnight, and people tend to stay within that round-trip distance from home like 95% of their driving time. There will be a need for places to recharge for longer trips, sure, and people who live in apartments and condos, but do we need tens or hundreds of thousands of them like gas stations?
First thing people tend to say about that car who don't know anything about EVs is "oh you don't have to go to gas stations?", nobody really loves doing it. They're hunting around for a gas-station business model on this stuff but when the tech becomes more common people may realize they don't have to bother with it nearly as much as they thought they would with home charging and these big ranges. The Tesla charging stations near me are rarely anywhere close to capacity.
Time will tell if there's actually a business model there. I'm not sure there is in the US at least. In India or China perhaps it may be a different story.
Common sense isn't common. Most people have no idea what 'poor manners' or even manners are anymore.
I'm dead serious. Look at snapchat, tiktok, viral videos ,police arrest videos- even something as simple as putting on a mask has evolved into fistfights, spitting on people, assault on people.
People don't know what manners are anymore, IMHO. A few do.
95% of society is 'f**k you, I got mine' or 'let's see how many shares/likes I can.get if I do this shitty thing to another human being'.
How many times.do you see people park in handicapped stalls without the handicapped plate, or sticker or decal?
I'm saying just general out of it, I have been frustrated at folks going 80 in a 100 zone and then been baffled when those same folks are going 80 in a 60 zone...just out of it
The article sound like it was written in 2011, not 2021, like the other ones about how the EV won't work in the snow and everyone's all gonna die in a battery fire. Real pearl-clutching stuff for old ladies.
Well I was a truck driver and remember it being a talking point five years ago with trucking in the states and me going "bah, how are they gonna deal with snow" (living in Denver at the time) and I got told they have been testing trucks in Europe for quite a while in the snow
Maybe in some places, but even those guys will get bored. Personally I've never seen, with my own eyes, anyone maliciously taking a charging spot. And from the work email threads, I think most of the people who cause issues are EV drivers who park for too long at the chargers...
This is why we have tow trucks
Tow the truck. Boom, problem solved.
Interestingly I see the opposite more often https://i.imgur.com/fkF5Aj8.jpg
Notice the empty parking spots at the convenience store that this driver specifically passed to park at the pump
Could it be that this person had just (or was about to) fill up a jerry can for a lawnmower or something at home?
Yep, had to do exactly that last week. But if you snapped the pic at just the right time, it would look like I was an asshole blocking a gas pump with his Tesla.
For a lawnmower or something? If so, HIGHLY recommend going electric on lawn equipment. It’s so much more convenient.
Yeah, for a lawnmower.
I had a one of the first electric lawnmowers on the market and it was a piece of junk. If I didn't mow my lawn every week, it would be too tall for it to easily get through. The batteries stopped holding enough charge to do my yard in one go, and the year after I bought a new battery for like $100, the mower quit working completely. So I bought a gas powered mower to replace it.
I know electric lawnmowers have improved since then, and when it's time to replace my gas mower, I'll go back to electric. My mower is a Honda though, so if it's as reliable as their cars, it will last forever.
My string trimmer and leaf blower are both electric though, they work great.
Ah that’s a bummer. Yeah the early electric mowers looked pretty iffy, but I swear by mine now. I’m totally bought into the Ryobi 40v system for all my yard stuff, so I can just swap out batteries on the fly if the charge runs out. Can’t do my full yard with one big battery honestly, but between the three i have, I can get a full day of work in between mowing/trimming/blowing/whatever.
Similar to EVs at the moment, there are use cases where electric doesn't make sense. Google says most electric lawnmowers last 30 minutes to an hour on a charge. Before I bought my rider, it took me about 2 hours to mow with my walk-behind. And it looks like electric riders start at about double the price of gas right now ($2,400 for 30 in, $3,600 for 42 in). Maybe by the time my current rider dies, electric will meet my needs, but that's just not the case currently. And I don't say that as a gas forever person; I can see my next car being a Mach-E or Lightning.
This will have been a habit he developed long before he got an EV
They probably wanted the shade.
Was wondering the same thing. Electric Semis are coming, maybe not within the next 10 years but at SOME point. Wouldn’t they want the infrastructure in place by the time electric semis come?
electric semis will likely need their own charging standard. much higher voltage and speeds. Tesla is designing the "Megacharger" for their semi (megawatt charging speeds)
Much higher power delivery, but not much higher wall-clock speeds. There's a limit on how fast you can charge (and discharge) your lithium-ion batteries.
Electric semis will not be a thing until battery tech has a transformational leap.
Electric semis are viable for short routes, and are absurdly cheaper to run. Fleet operators who do a lot of those routes will be tempted to adopt. Especially if cities begin adopting low or no emissions zones (granted, that's unlikely in the U.S. in the short term).
Agreed on longer routes or general purpose trucking, thouch.
Those short routes would be better off just charging the truck while it's parked or being loaded/unloaded, instead of paying a driver to wait on it at a public charger.
I think you have limited understanding of shipping logistics management. Vehicle uptime is critical, and currently charging is not fast enough for how many kWh duty cycles semis consume.
Youre thinking of smaller fleet vans/box trucks...those are not semis
Source: I oversee a sizable freight account which ships durable goods by semi
There are countless local and regional routes that could be covered within a full charge of a semi. Many trucks could easily be charged at their origin and complete a route on a single charge. It won't work for everything, sure. Not yet. But once we start seeing them produced (in more than trial amounts), there absolutely will be demand.
I think you have a narrow focus based on what your company does which is making you miss what a lot of trucking across america actually does, day to day. I'm not suggesting that the first generation of semis will be a 90% replacement, or even a 50% replacement, but every semi that will be built by Tesla, Daimler, or ofhers in the next 5 years will sell.
An average semi driver will complete a delivery, unload, load, and immediately proceed to the next destination. They dont do one trip a day, they chain them for the next, and try to minimize any unloaded legs or downtime not required for sleep/hour-limits
They have 150gal tanks, at 6.5mpg (975mile range), and semi diesels are veeeery efficient: they burn at 43% thermal efficiency. so each gallon holds 18 kWh of usable energy (40kWh pre waste heat). Battery EVs charge at 7kWh (up to 150kWh but you cant run that fast from empty), so to fully “refuel” an equivalent EV semi making a full range regional trip at even a 150kWh rate is 2700 kWh...or 18 hours...so for every day you use an EV semi, it is down for another day charging, I dont see it for that use case until battery tech improves
EDIT: THAT ISNT EVEN CONSIDERING THE PAYLOAD LOSS THAT A 16,875lb battery pack would weigh to hold 2700 kWh of usable energy...for an equivalent EV semi, a trucker would need to sacrifice 15-20% of their gross haul limit (and in freight lbs = $)
EDIT2: doable with battery swaps, but that isnt trivial at the 5-7 ton battery sizes
>An average semi driver will complete a delivery, unload, load, and immediately proceed to the next destination. They dont do one trip a day, they chain them for the next, and try to minimize any unloaded legs or downtime not required for sleep/hour-limits
There are countless routes where the drivers return home at the end of the day. You're specifying a use case which I am not suggesting will be electrified yet.
>They have 150gal tanks, at 6.5mpg (975mile range), and semi diesels are veeeery efficient: they burn at 43% thermal efficiency. so each gallon holds 18 kWh of usable energy (40kWh pre waste heat). Battery EVs charge at 7kWh (up to 150kWh but you cant run that fast from empty), so to fully “refuel” an equivalent EV semi making a full range regional trip at even a 150kWh rate is 2700 kWh...or 18 hours...so for every day you use an EV semi, it is down for another day charging, I dont see it for that use case until battery tech improves
150 kwh is a limit on some current passenger EVs. Not even all. The Porsche taycan charges at up to 350 kwh. Semis will have something like 10 times the battery. The bigger the battery, the faster charge can be had. Of course it won't work with the numbers you're giving.
>EDIT: THAT ISNT EVEN CONSIDERING THE PAYLOAD LOSS THAT A 16,875lb battery pack would weigh to hold 2700 kWh of usable energy...for an equivalent EV semi, a trucker would need to sacrifice 15-20% of their gross haul limit (and in freight lbs = $)
>EDIT2: doable with battery swaps, but that isnt trivial at the 5-7 ton battery sizes
> and are absurdly cheaper to run
The Loves truck stop near me has them but I'm not sure about the Flying J near it.
A small truck stop chain in my area (along I-40) has Tesla stations already. They see a significant amount of use.
Why hasn’t McDonalds and Tacobell done it yet. They need the off hours visitors.
They’re waiting on the electric truck tech to hit so they only have to install once.
Or McDonald's / Starbucks / Dunkin' Donuts / Wendy's /etc.
"Need a place to charge that new car? Every McDonald's in America now has a 150 kW charger" seems like a pretty solid pitch to draw in people. If they gotta stop somewhere anyway, why not stuff ‘em full of Filets o'Fish?
Nice to see but also seems like not that many when compared to how many 7-11's are in the US. Is that even 1%?
I quickly googled it, there are 10k locations in the US/Canada, 7,800 in the US alone. So about 6%, small footprint, but it's something.
Tbf a lot of those are in cities or attached to really crappy gas stations
Agreed, I wonder what the true % is accounting for locations that cannot physically have a charging station installed.
I would guess about double or more. There are a lot of 7/11s that have no actual parking lot. It’s street parking or no parking at all.
And that isn’t to mention the small parking lot locations. I lived in the DC area near a 7/11 with like 3 parking spots of a ultra busy parking lot. They probably could have a charger but wouldn’t want one because it would mean people sitting in the lot for longer than necessary and blocking other potential customers.
> it will install 500 direct-current fast charging ports at 250 locations
So a bit above 3% of locations actually (especially when you count the existing 14 stores w/ chargers).
As an initial big push for EV chargers it's not bad, especially when you consider how few 7-11 customers are likely to be using EVs, haha.
Edit: For comparison, Tesla had 908 stations in the USA as of March 2020.
Thank you for the Tesla comparison, the 7/11 network is more impressive than I thought at first.
Yup. It should be noted that Tesla stations have far more chargers each than what 7-11 is planning but it'll be a respectable network if these plans pan out. Given how small most 7-11 locations are 2 chargers each is a good number though, and I doubt they want every parking spot to be filled with EVs (that might inadvertently hurt sales).
I'd be more curious to see where they put these things, I figure a good number will end up in California as it has the most EVs of any state (by a lot) but the Ford Lightning might change that in a hurry.
The chargers are being put in to attract new customers
Yup, I just figure their existing customer base is pretty different to the average EV base. The nice thing about the chargers is that even if they don't attract *too* many new customers in the store, they can generate some revenue on their own so they won't be dead weight. I'd just have to figure what the break even points are with and without converting each user into a 7-11 sale. I figure some busier locations could want to avoid the chargers though as they'd consume parking spots for too long, I doubt most locations collect parking utilization metrics though.
Seems like pretty easy money, after all they make pennies on gas sales already given how competitive that market is. I'd have to imagine charger users would have a higher rate of coming into the store unlike customers going to the pumps, since (responsible and/or decent) ICE drivers have to stay with their car for the entire fueling process whereas the EV drivers have plenty of time to kill.
cool cool! let's hope it all works out.
Yeah but how many are connected to a gas station
If you take out the locations that dont have car access and locations where EV adoption is probably going to be slow at best its probably a decent percentage.
Also compare that to what a pain in the ass it would be to expand gas stations by 6% (zoning, transport, superfund shit, etc.). EV charging station construction, I reckon, is going to proceed faster than most people are anticipating.
I'm going to point out the ramification here that US users might not be aware of: This potentially paves the way for 7-11 to start thinking about international installations, and **7-11 is huge in Asia, particularly in rural areas.**
Seriously, *every* small stopover town in rural Thailand has a 7-11, and that's where you're going to see a lot of friction to international EV adoption in 10-15 years. If 7-11 is thinking about this in NA now, it's useful for them down the line.
It's genius. You've got 20 minutes to kill to get more range. Go get yourself something from inside the 7-11. Now they're getting your "gas money" *and* a bigger food/drink bill than normal.
Not necessarily worth putting them in a large number right away just due to lack of people who would use them.
I guess it's sort of a catch-22 issue, but there are so few Teslas or any EVs in my popular downtown neighborhood that I don't blame them for not installing more right out the gate.
I bet they’ll treat this as a pilot program. If it works and EVs continue on their current trajectory, they’ll put them just about everywhere. But there are still some EVs not even sold in every state of the US right now, so it’s not worth putting them everywhere until they’re sure it works and there’s customers for them.
There are like 7 within a 1 mile radius of my apartment. I agree its not a lot % but its a start.
But will the charger dispense a Slurpee?
Well fast charging takes a half hour or so. You can head into the store for a damned slurpee.
I ain’t walkin that far
that's what the cyberquad is for, duh!
Everyday we get closer to making Wall-E a reality.
Sonic to install EV charging stations (/s)
That would be great. I go to sonic wayyy to often
I’ve been highly debating if I should open up my own sonic franchise and install EV chargers at each stall just to see how it goes. But damn they are expensive!
Just use a food delivery app and get them to deliver a slurpee
My thoughts exactly
No wheezing the juice
Any location maps of where they are coming?
Warmer climates where most EV's are located. Ones that are attached to a gas station who have the space and infrastructure to accommodate them. Not going in strip malls with limited parking. So mostly the southwest is my guess. Major emphasis in CA who will stop selling new gas cars in 2035.
CA was first to have its own Emission standard back when, Now all cars have CA Emission and America smells better now.
Yeah I grew up in So Cal in the 80's. No outdoor activities in the afternoon on some days. Smog reports were part of the weather. Not anymore. The emissions standards trickling to other states was a residual manufacturing effect. No sense running two production lines. More cost effective to standardize it.
I think we're going to see a lot of this going forward. Perfect way to get drivers to come inside the attached stores, which is where all the money is anyway
I mean, I guess accessibility to chargers is always a plus and the country definitely needs more of it. But who actually spends more than 5-10 mins at a convenient store?
It's probably just going to be a new part of life that people sit around waiting for their car to charge
Which is the real reason Tesla puts those games and gimmicks (like the whoopee cushion) in their infotainment screen. To keep you occupied while charging.
If only someone had an unlimited form of entertainment that could fit in their pocket. Maybe with a screen on it and a wireless connection.
Well, not everyone has an unlimited data plan. And in some places you won't have good cellular reception.
Sure, some of Tesla's games and gimmicks require connectivity to work, but not all of them. In any case, the interior screen’s much larger dimensions compared to a smartphone gives it a leg to stand on even if you can do the same thing on your phone.
If you own a Tesla you own a cell phone. That Venn is 99.9999% mutually inclusive.
It is to be able to do some of that stuff on a large high-res screen though.
That would fucking suck.
I imagine it’ll only be a thing for people traveling long distances. Charging at home will be the norm.
And if you don’t have a home? It would kind of suck if we all made a society that told apartment dwellers to suck it up and not drive as freely as everyone else. Sounds pretty dystopian compared to now.
I mean I imagine that’ll just become a normal thing for a lot of apartments too eventually. The transitional period will be the hard part.
I imagine the end goal is for cities to install a lot of street charging and car parks to also install chargers. It'll take time to transition, but it'll happen eventually.
Don't worry, apartment building owners will be more than happy to install chargers, and charge all tenants a $35/month fee to use them even if they don't have an EV.
You can opt out, but parking an ICE vehicle requires a $35 legacy technology fee.
If you don't have a car at all, they've got you covered. You just have to pay $35 for the alternative transportation pedestrian connectivity fee.
$35/mo to replace your gas bill would actually be a good deal for most people.
No it would be 35$ access fee, plus the cost of electricity
A lot of apartments are installing EV chargers left and right, as demand goes up more will do so.
By the time you can't buy an ICE car anymore (a long way off), infrastructure and battery tech will both be much further ahead than where they are today.
There are hundreds of millions of ICE vehicles for you to choose from. Charging infrastructure and speed will catch up eventually and the chance of you ever being unable to drive an ICE car in America in the next 30-50 years seems pretty slim.
I mean unless someone can figure out modular battery packs or instant charging it's just going to be that way for people who need on the go charging
Nio already offers battery swapping: https://thedriven.io/2020/08/24/nios-battery-as-a-service-drops-ev-price-by-14500/
> Instead of the upfront cost of the battery, drivers buying one of Nio’s handful of smart and sleek electric cars who take up the “battery-as-a-service” (BaaS) option will pay a RMB 980 (about $A198) monthly fee that includes a 70kWh battery.
> In return, they benefit from the ability to change a depleted EV battery for a charged-up one in a matter of minutes – a boon for those who are after the convenience of not having to wait for a battery to recharge, such as on a long distance trip.
$198 a month forever which will probably increase as time goes on. There goes all the money you would have saved not buying gas.
You also get a $A14,500 discount on the car. So if the price doesn’t increase, after 73 months it will start costing you more. Also those prices are Australian dollars not US.
>Also those prices are Australian dollars not US.
This makes more sense now, thanks lol
Right now the “Everything as a Service” model is looking very much like the “death of the middle class by a thousand cuts”.
I agree. It's difficult to try to save for a house or retirement if every month you have 20 different payments that you have to make.
The truth of it is if it were better for consumers more and more businesses wouldn’t be switching to that model. For a business it solves the problem of finding your next customer. Previously your current sale could be your last sale ever to that person.
Instead they’re now on the hook for a monthly subscription that over a specific period of time will net you more money than the one off sale.
what happened to Tesla's battery swapping endeavor?
Floundered and seemingly got canned. Especially now that they're starting to use the packs as structural members in the car body instead of just overbuilding around them.
New conscience stores will be upscale lounges with better food and atmosphere than the past. It’s already been the trend for the past 10 years.
Ive spent like 10-15 minutes before in places like Wawa. If I had nothing else to do during a charge, I'd imagine I'd spend more time inside
Exactly this is a prime move for Wawa, Royal Farms, or any other convenience store that prepares hot food and has sitting. They are also like these 7-11’s connected to highways.
I have been mentioning this for a while here.
One Wawa in Orlando I think actually has superchargers installed there
I took my Model 3 on a road trip last year and stopped at a Sheetz with Superchargers. By the time I took a piss, got some food and ate it, I had more than enough charge to make it to my hotel (which had a free charger to use).
That stop would've taken longer in an ICE vehicle because I can't fill up one tank while emptying the other unless I want to commit a felony.
Wow, somehow I hadn't considered how profitable EVs will be for convenience stores. Now that people will be stuck for 20 min waiting on a charge, they'll be way more likely to grab something inside. That's where most convenience stores make their money.
I miss Wawa so freaking much. I really wish they would migrate to Kentucky. All we have here are shitty Circle K’s. It doesn’t hold a candle to Wawa.
I can’t imagine being so bored that loitering around a Wawa seems like a good option.
throw some arcade games back in the store
if you’re in Asia https://youtu.be/kIvHQcdbT8o
In the States? Maybe people who can't afford to go to a supermarket for some reason.
In Asia? Pretty much everyone.
I'd disagree on "pretty much everyone" for Asia. At best you can claim comics fanatics who hang around to skim issues without buying.
It's nicer/cleaner/etc, yes, but in the end it's still just a convenience store. You're in and out pretty quickly.
Convenience stores are far more expensive than supermarkets
Too bad Sonic’s food sucks. They’re perfectly suited for EV charging.
Makes you wonder if other fast food chains will start copying Sonic's drive-in model if they can make a few extra dollars by selling electricity. They already have the footprint.
It would make more sense for chain dine-in restaurants where customers are sitting for an hour.
"Well we need to charge and eat, since all the restaurants will be closed by the time we get to the hotel...Applebees it is!"
Burger King revealed their [“Restaurant of Tomorrow” concept](https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2020/09/the-burger-king-of-the-future-looks-totally-different.html) last year, which is basically an Eat-In, Drive-In and Drive-Thru combo.
There really isn't much separating a sonic and a McDonald's at this point. Mobile ordering + curbside pickup eliminates the need for the screens that sonic uses
Yes. Because it takes 35-40 minutes to get your order. The symmetry is there.
They better call it the SlurpeeCharger network.
Big Gulps, eh?
Well, see ya later
I don't know what 7-Eleven is like in your area, but around here they are all tiny little shops that usually have at most 4 or 5 regular parking spaces. It's already crowded enough without people hanging around for 30 minutes to charge... ugh.
In my area - California (where there are a lot of EVs) - they vary pretty significantly. Some are in little strip malls, but others have their own parking lot with 15-20 spaces. I can imagine these working in the latter.
Designated parking works too. I expect that they'll put the charging spots further away and then keep 2-4 spots painted green for 10 min parking.
Well that would definitely work there in CA. I'm on the East Coast, and everything is more densely developed. I imagine that 7-11 probably is enacting this plan in places like you've described and not the typical locations around here.
I live in Utah and I would guess half of the 7-11s have gas stations and half are the little shops as you described.
This is good news overall, and I hope that others follow suit. With any luck the program pans out for 7-11 and they expand it to more of their stores.
I always thought it would be a great idea to start a company where you have fast chargers but also a lounge where you can chill for half an hour or more. Like something with snacks, wifi and stuff. 7-11 is not that. While it's great they are doing this you spend like 3 minutes in a 7-11 at most. Then you're just sitting in the car with a bunch of crack heads surrounding you.
Sorry, I'm not spending 40 minutes at a 7-11. Never gonna happen.
I would. A little sketchiness adds excitement to life.
Dinner and a show!
I was wondering about this... 7-11's aren't usually in the best of areas and hanging out near or in one for any length of time is typically not going to be an experience most people will want. lol
In my life your proximity to a 7-11, along with a few other indicators, is highly indicative to you being in the wrong part of town.
Yeah… I actively avoid 7-11s.
Lol I thought this was only in my town. Everybody I know has always avoided the 7-11, I always felt nervous when I was filling up there whether it was midnight or 10am
Yeah now imagine being stuck there for 30 minutes... no thanks lol 3 minutes is plenty
Yeah but can’t you get a 150 miles in 15min if empty? That’s a decent amount
I don't know about other cars, but the average charge stop in a new Model 3 is about 20 minutes. Even my 2013 is still usually not more than 30 minutes.
When I saw this, that's exactly what popped in my head. It's not so much for the individual but for people using 7/11 as a whole. 7/11 is designed for quick stops just to quickly grab a coffee and a snack, a lot don't even have bathrooms as well and the parking lots are usually tiny. Having a few electric cars hanging and charging is just taking valuable parking real estate.
Nice. Trying to take back a cut of the sales that have gone over to gas station/convenience store combos.
There's also an opportunity to find a market fit for something that takes a little longer, but not a long time. Fast food restaurants being the classic example. You don't normally go shopping at a 7-11 for half an hour. Though I guess maybe this is already being solved, a lot of the DC fast chargers I use are either close to fast food, Target, or both.
Hope they spread them out. Might be a bit overkill at a single location.
Lol fuck that. Wait 30 minutes to get robbed and have bums ask for change.
So 7-Eleven will now be competing with gas stations for car refueling + convenience stores, except they don't have the legacy infrastructure to rip out plus these stores are everywhere. Should be fun to watch this develop.
No, 7-Eleven owns a bunch of gas stations, they aren’t going to be competing with them. They are just adding chargers in the parking lots of gas stations near highways to attract more travelers to their stores. They own the gas pumps, just not the fuel distribution, which will continue with the electric chargers they are setting up unless they make their own grid. Also, why would you think a gas station would rip up all the pumps to put in EV chargers, we are nowhere near the point where the demand for gas is so little that that would make sense, and EV chargers are already a lot closer together than gas pumps and are just put at the edges of parking lots.
Still doesn’t solve the charging time issue. I just completed a three-day trip to the Grand Canyon. Left Friday night at 6, spent the day at the north rim, then went to Colorado and then back home to Texas.
When an electric car allows me to do the exact same trip in about the same amount of time, that’s when I’ll buy one. Yeah, it’s not typical use case, but a car is too expensive to expect young college graduates or otherwise not rich people to have two of them, one for traveling and one for just puttering around town.
> hen an electric car allows me to do the exact same trip in about the same amount of time,
Unless you did the whole thing cannonball style and didn't stop for anything other than fuel, I would wager an EV would do it in a similar amount of time.
I drove from Denver to Austin and it didn't take me very much longer than it would have in a gas car when you consider how long rest stops took.
Alternatively you can buy an electric car for daily use and rent a gas car for road trips. It still likely works out better financially (assuming rental car prices come back down to earth).
Jesus christ, you're not kidding about rental prices, what the fuck happened there? My wife was on a vacation recently and rented a vehicle to get around, quoted rate was like $300, after fees and taxes it was over $800.
I know I’m exhausted and just need to close reddit and go to bed when I read this as “7-UP to install 500ev charging stations” and all I can do is wonder why a soda company is investing into such a thing.
It’s been a long day.
the best place for them would actually be small towns along major highways. If an EV owner is going to make a pit stop during a trip, it may as well be at a 7-11
Guessing you’ll prepay for a set amount of plug time.
more likely you'll be charged per kwh used, thats how what most networks are moving to
That certainly makes way more sense
Except in high traffic areas.
I have driven for over 10 years and I don't think I have ever stopped at a 7-Eleven for gas. I just don't see them in the places where I lived.
I don't even think of 7-11s as a gas station, they're just convenience stores where people go to buy drugs in the parking lot. At least in my area.
Most 7/11s don’t even have gas stations anymore where I live. I can think of like 5 locations and the only one that has gas used to be a Fills, wasn’t built as a 7/11
Seriously. what the he'll am I going to do at 7-11 for an hour while I wait for my car to charge? They don't even have MS. Pac Man any more...
Now that I think about it, that is a he'll of a marketing idea.