LG Pay is being discontinued in the US by the end of 2021
By - NinjaParadigm
It’s worth noting that LG Pay used a tech similar to but not actually MST to work at as many places as Samsung Pay… they used something called [WMC](https://www.androidauthority.com/lg-pay-1103402/) to get it to work on Magstripe readers
Maybe the WMC tech could one day be licensed out to another company like Samsung did with OV Valet…
Forever fuck samsung for *removing* this feature from their phones, including the "ultra" flagship.
That’s why I didn’t upgrade from my S20
Do you actually use that feature a lot?
I feel like it would have been really handy a few years ago when magnetic strips were the most common way to swipe and retailers had just started to upgrade their systems to accept chips. But now, every retailer I go to seems to have a new system that accepts both a chip and NFC payment. Even my local small-time bodega has an NFC-capable reader. I can't remember the last time I swiped a credit card.
The amount of restaurants that don't take NFC payments here where I live are too many to count 😂
A lot of them are managed by Old people who don't understand contactless but their food is great so I go anyway
Even the ones that have the system set up, I will run into “Wait for cashier” to accept it on their end. One grocery doesn’t open their self checkouts until later in the morning so I don’t go until they’re open to avoid that awkwardness.
Cash is king baby. It ain't a problem til the IRS get curious and they go after big fish anyway.
but muh cash back credit card rewards😂
Just for your information: many businesses charge a covienance fee for using credit cards, or often instead a discount for paying with check or cash. We do this because CC companies charge us ~3% of each transaction.
Every business that doesn't do this is just charging everyone an additional ~5% just to make up for CC middleman taking their vig.
I have only ever seen a business charge a convenience fee on small dollar amounts. Usually, this advertised somewhere with a sign that reads "There will be a 0.50¢ fee for credit card purchases below $10" or something of the like.
This fee is also a driver in why retailers push their credit cards so heavily. They have agreements with the financers so that they do not get charged fees with branded credit cards. With the number of customers daily, that small percentage fee saved adds up to a big dollar amount if a decent percentage of them are using a branded payment method.
Don't worry, I was just joking. I actually pay all my taxes, I chose to believe at least some of it goes where it can do some good.
>The amount of restaurants that don't take NFC payments here where I live are too many to count 😂
No QR based payments?
We have UPI in India
> No QR
Hold up there, can't confuse the old folk here.
You can type in the UPI ID too!!!
If that's any help LOL
Popular among the old shopkeepers too. I guess they learnt how it works during the Demonetization.
In the US, it is still really common to see places where NFC readers haven't been set up yet. Mainly small businesses.
I've actually seen small businesses adopting NFC more because they use things like Square. The problem in my area seems to be mostly bigger things like fast food chains, grocery stores, etc.
While true, it's rapidly shrinking. There is serious incentive from the card brands to upgrade at this point.
Here in TN, even in Nashville there’s large swaths of that city that don’t have NFC terminals in stores. You can forget about NFC at most gas stations in the middle of the state too. Definitely not in Memphis either.
MST on the Fold 2 has saved me a few times when I forgot my wallet.
Maybe it's just my area, but it's still pretty uncommon. Many major businesses like Kroger and Walmart still don't accept NFC. I think in my area it's more common in small businesses than big ones.
They're coming, I haven't seen a single place here in SF that hasn't transitioned before, or due to Covid. Hopefully a prevailing wind for the rest of the country
Yes, because some huge businesses, Walmart for instance, ONLY allow NFC payment via their own proprietary app.
Yeah that is complete bullshit. And they're trying so hard to be Amazon (which is why they're stuffing that app down our throats) but they just don't have the same quality control of merchants or good review system and high number of reviewers to make the Walmart marketplace competitive with Amazon. And really Amazon has issues in those areas that WalMart could capitalize on, but they just don't have the quality to do it. Also that fucking app by default keeps finding a way to notify me about deals I don't care about every couple days.
So tying NFC to the app, pushing the app for 2 day delivery and in store pick up, and ramping up the marketplace all work but WalMart as a retailer often just seems sceavy in some ways and they've managed to transfer that feeling into using their app as well lol.
I used to until Samsung got rid of its reward points. Very sad
I use MST every time I go to the grocery store. Kroger stores haven't upgraded and neither has Walmart. Walmart tries to block it, but wrapping my debit in Paypal or using my shittiest credit card works fine there.
Same here since upgrading to a phone with NFC I haven't used a credit card since. I use Google pay for everything when you have multiple cards it's particularly useful
I haven't used a mag-stripe in over 12 years.
I use chip maybe once like every 2-3 months.
but every day it's NFC via my bank app on the phone (Google Pay/Apple Pay has been introduced recently, but I don't feel like I need it)
Its not that the feature is used a lot its more extremely convenient when it's needed in those rare occasions.
I think it's a really cool feature since not everywhere has NFT. That said I didn't know it existed until I upgraded from my S10+ to my S21U. So I guess I don't miss it lol. Wouldn't mind having it tho
When I had my s7 I used it at gas stations all the time instead of using my actual card.
Must be an American thing. All wireless terminals work correctly in Australia.
Keep a $20 for the mum and pop shops that don't accept card.
We (Americans) are pretty in this area. Did you know that in restaurants here, the waiter usually takes your card away from the table (out of sight) to charge it? That one seems to surprise a lot of foreigners.
Yes I did. Also had it happen here. The foreigners you speak of are most likely European 🤌
I had that suspicion.
Yeah, I would love to get on the 5G bandwagon at some point but Samsung nixing the MST part of Samsung Pay was a big hindrance on my S10+. Been using Samsung Pay since the S7 days, back when Pay Rewards were actually worth it.
The convenience is such a big deal since most of the places I shop at still don't have NFC readers. The places I go to that do have them, I don't frequent them often, like Walgreens, Panera, etc. I still use Samsung Pay over Google Pay there.
MST isn’t on s10?
I forgot a word.
It was a hindrance on **upgrading from** my S10
I do have a gear s3 watch though, so worst case I ll just use the mst on that
I haven't kept up with wearables, especially Android's offerings. Does Samsung still support MST in its most recent watch?
The Gear S3 is the only watch that has MST.
Yep, and that's one of the reasons I've never considered upgrading from mine. Sure the battery life has gone downhill over the years, but it's so convenient having MST on my wrist.
Not the most recent one, but the same gen as s10 ones.
Upgrading the phone is more important than upgrading a watch I suppose
So Samsung has removed MST from the latest Galaxy Watch?
I think so yeah
Ah same here
Totally agree, as a US customer. For whatever reasons the country has arbitrarily decided to still not upgrade to NFC pay terminals in the majority of places where we shop. MST is still extremely useful here for many folks.
>for whatever reason
You can blame the credit card companies for this one. MST is horrifically insecure, so visa and MasterCard told all the other countries in the world that if they wanted to keep using it, they had to accept liability for any fraud that happened. Businesses of course updated their payment terminals, because they wanted visa to be liable for the credit card fraud.
But visa and MC never imposed the same restriction in the US, so everybody who accepts credit card payments in the US kept using the old readers instead of buying new readers that accepted NFC tap payments.
Slight nitpick: *magstripes* are horrifically insecure; MST isn't. MST uses a one-time token just like NFC, it's just transmitted magnetically instead of using RF.
You know whats weird in Texas HEB grocery stores upgraded to NFC capable terminals but "it never worked" luckily with my note 8 that wasn't an issue. However in the last few months they upgraded those NFC capable terminals to non NFC capable terminals I am surprised they are still even making new non nfc terminals.
They're probably NFC capable but with the hardware disabled. Pretty much every current payment terminal does support it, even the ones at Walmart and Kroger where they've just kept it turned off.
Visa and MC did impose the same restriction in the US but it was to push stores to upgrade to chip readers instead of NFC
I'm sorry fucking WHAT? I admit I don't use it as much as I used to, but I loved this feature!
Pretty sure this has to be a location thing for OP there. Every article, every source I have been able to research all say the same thing "Limited in some markets". Hell there is even a Wikipedia page that shows the devices that have it. I double verified by going through a few major flag ships via Samsung's site and it says on their specs page it is supported...
## Samsung Pay
* Credit & debit cards: supports MST or/and NFC
* Membership cards
* Gift cards
* Transit cards
* Global transfer
* Payment solutions and available features may vary depending on carrier, and services providers.
Honestly MST was good for its time but I haven't run into a situation that called for it in at least couple years. So many places take NFC payments now.
You're living in a totally separate society from the rest of us bud.
Every single store chain near me does not have nfc payments. They push their own brand of "pay" through their own app.
America, 10 years behind the curve
When is the last time you've actually had a reason to use the MST feature? I live in the US and when I got my S7 it was definitely a killer feature. As the frequency of opportunity to use it faded it still remained useful at stores like CVS, which had disabled NFC in anticipation of that QR code bullshit they were planning and then took forever to turn the NFC on their payment terminals back on after they abandoned the QR code thing.
But between Apple Pay driving NFC adoption and the US credit card issuers finally getting on the contactless train the only recent times I can remember trying to use the MST was when I was at a store where the NFT terminal was malfunctioning. And at those times it didn't work, I'm assuming because the phone simultaneously blasts the NFC signal and thus was triggering the faulty NFC reader.
I do agree that it's sort of weird that they removed it from the "ultra flagship" models in the US while retaining it in the same models in other markets...but I also kind of just don't care now. The only remaining opportunities to use it would be stuff like how you can insert a credit card the upside down into a parking meter to activate the magstripe reader and then hold the phone up to it to use the MST. But that hasn't been worth it ever since they stopped the "use Samsung Pay with [XYZ brand credit card] three times and get $5" types of promotions and getting redeemable points for using Samsung Pay, which made it worth getting creative with finding opportunities to use the MST functionality.
Literally 2 days ago, and every single time I go to any store not including gas stations.
It's amazing how sometimes you don't have your wallet, but you fucking ALWAYS HAVE your phone.
>It's amazing how sometimes you don't have your wallet, but you fucking ALWAYS HAVE your phone.
I agree, but I can't remember the last time this caused me a problem. If guess it could be an issue trying to eat at a retirement, but if I don't have my wallet it's probably because of something like I'm out for a run and spontaneously want a Gatorade.
What general area do you live in? I live in the LA area, maybe this is different in other parts of the country.
Good catch! It is indeed called WMC and not MST
I didn't even know it existed sheesh
I only knew it exists because my LG K92 had it preinstalled and I can't even disable it. Hopefully when they kill the app they push a minor update allowing phones to uninstall it. It may be foolish of me, but I have faith that LG would be smarter than Google, allowing apps that are discontinued to be uninstalled, rather than having them stuck on the phone to waste space. Even with their mobile division closing, it wouldn't be that hard for them to release what's essentially a hotfix to allow users to remove an app that does literally nothing anymore.
Lol we both know they won't
Shush, one can hope.
Why a full OS update for such a minor thing?
All that work, time, and money just for the process for updates on android? jeez. Makes me want go all in on just google hardware.
Thank good chrome os and cloud ready has no fragmentation.
Best we can hope for is a universal bootloader unlock tool.
You can "uninstall" it via adb. https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/tool-adb-appcontrol-v1-6-3-app-manager-debloat-tool-for-android.4147837/
Came to say the same thing
Missed an opportunity by not calling El Gpay.
LG Pay will be phased out and discontinued by the end of this year. The app on mobile gives the date of 11/01/2021.
This change unfortunately removes MST as a feature of LG Phones in the US, as well as some other useful features(Like LG Quick Pay, and the transit payment system).
Edit: a redditor below correctly pointed out that this technology is actually called WMC on LG phones
I never knew that LG phones have MST, I assumed the technology was exclusive to Samsung. I'm a tech enthusiast and I'm just finding this out. I think this is another sign of why LG couldn't keep up, they had innovative features but the marketing wasn't there, LG didn't register in people's minds.
This is true, it's why I love LG phones. Not to nitpick, as I was wrong here as well-- The technology on LG is called WMC. MST is specific to Samsung phones
I worked for the company that developed and sold the WMC tech to LG a few years back. They spent around $10mm on the patents and did pretty much nothing to market it. It’s too bad.
How easy would it be for another company besides LG and Samsung to get their hands on a similar tech nowadays?
My guess is the tech could be applied to other functions so if you manufacture hardware and want to apply this tech to non-payments you could find a development team to build it.
LG got MST after Samsung, they had smaller or the same size batteries, weaker cameras after the v20 generation, and did nothing else to really differentiate or stand out, plus had many issues from the g4/5 and V10/20 era like overheating and major lag as a result.
It's like people only know about lg cause of the Obama phone
Even if you knew though, a lot of banks didn't support LG Pay the same way they did for Google Pay and Samsung Pay.
Opened up LG Pay on my G8 and this is what popped up:
> We regret to inform you that the LG Pay Wallet service in the United States will be phasing out over the remainder of 2021 and discontinued on Nov. 1, 2021. As we wind down over the coming months, you may notice that we will: stop accepting new enrolments to LG Pay; stop allowing the addition of new cards to existing accounts (Credit/Debit/Prepaid Card, Gift Card, Loyalty Card); and no longer allow the purchase of new gift cards. However, you will be able to use your existing provisioned cards until the LG Pay service is completely decommissioned. In the interim, LG recommends that:
(a) if you have an LG Pay Perks Card with a remaining balance, you use your remaining funds prior to the LG Pay Service Termination; and
(b) if you have any gift cards in your LG Pay wallet to back them up for future use by saving the card number and pin outside of LG Pay.
Didn't know they have their own version...
Sad that LG is withdrawing from the smartphone world
They did have some innovative phones !
Why is the US still so against NFC?
In Australia magstripes are so old tech. Even get teens now that struggle with chip+pin because NFC is so universal, they just barely ever do otherwise.
We still hand over our credit cards to strangers at restaurants to do with it what they will.
Partially because they just upgraded to chip cards. And that's yet another investment.
But I've been to quite a few places where they definitely have NFC capable terminals, they just don't have it enabled. Literally no idea why. Like there are gas pumps that have NFC support, and if you try to use it, they just say "Not Allowed". I have no idea what's going on there.
Some companies are holding out for specific reasons. Walmart for example has their own pay scheme they want you to use. Most places do take GPay or APay. Probably 9/10 places will support it.
Was easy to see this coming, though I didn't know it existed before today. With LG exiting the phone business, there's little reason to continue supporting this app. The list of partners was abysmally small, so I'm certain it got very little use as it is.
This is actually a good thing, in my mind. The world doesn't need dozens of mobile wallets with fractured functionality. It's usually good to have competition, but competing standards are anti-consumer. Glad we're finally starting to see some consolidation in the mobile wallet world. Chase Pay down, LG Pay down... what can go next? Samsung Pay?
I’m old enough to remember when LG and HTC were routinely mentioned in the same breath as Samsung.
I mean, that was only what, 4 years ago? Maybe 5.
Even farther back than that. I don't think HTC has had mass market appeal in around 10 years. The HTC one family were impressive devices, but didn't sell that well. LG had some success with the G2-G4 (8-6 years ago) but after that they haven't really done much. LG was more popular as mid range phones that people got because they were cheap, not because they were good.
I’d say probably around the era of the HTC One M8, which was 2014? So 7 years, dang. Doesn’t feel like that long ago.
HTC 10 was 2016 and it never really caught on from what I remember.
From what I remember, they all lost momentum in the snapdragon 810 era, where only samsung had its own chip
I remember the days when HTC took the 810, a chip widely known to have overheating issues, and decided to put a metal back on it. Great idea.
On the other hand that heat dissipation might have prevented bootlooping. Using that chip was the bad decision
As opposed to what? The 810 was much better than the 808, there weren’t mass instances of 810 based phones bootlooping, that was an issue relegated to mainly 808 based phones.
The 805 was a better performer than the 808 (20% faster GPU) but was limited to 32 bit support, and Exynos wasn’t an option for HTC. They used the best chip available to them at the time, and the phone handled it well (look at anandtech’s performance metrics on the m9). It’s amazing how much misinformation still circulated about that whole generation of chipsets.
The one m9 was one of the best performing phones of 2015, it consistently outperformed other 810 phones. A metal body helps dissipate heat...
That’s one of the most maligned phones and chipsets ever.
How old? I'm 18 and I remember too. Remember lg g4 and the htc one m8, the moto x under google, the oneplus 2 and 3... the good old days. They killed the nexus line... WHY!
It became the Pixel
The pixel line is a physical representation of everything wrong with android nowadays.
The most shitty phone brand in history. The nexus line went from being great yet affordable and a great way for google to show that it's guiding and nurturing and helping android OEMs by awarding the nexus brand to multiple OEMs to google competing with the rest of android directly whilst still having absolute control over android and therefore having a massive unfair advantage.
i wouldn’t be surprised if Samsung Pay would at least be de-emphasised in way for GPay. in the West, anyway. discontinuing MST was a strange move to see. it was SPay’s USP and they must’ve known that.
see how Google and Samsung are working together on WearOS and OneUI and Google devs are collaborating (see Google Messages). i think it’s fair to assume that Android 12 was developed with some Samsung input.
i have not much to base this on but i strongly suspect Google and Samsung will be collaborating more on shared platforms. how else can they compete with Apple’s vertical integration? Samsung’s excellence in hardware and Google’s dominance in mobile services is a killer combo, especially seeing as both companies struggle at the other
(i could be talking completely out of my ass here so pls argue with me if you think i’m mistaken)
The good thing about lg pay is that it supported mst for mag stripe payments. Kinda like Samsung pay used to as well. Kinda makes it a little more than another redundant payment app.
In Mexico, Samsung Pay has already announced its withdrawal, ironically Apple Pay arrived at the same time. Associated banks are undoubtedly key in countries where cash transactions are predominant, but these systems compete at the same time against those banks, which makes it very difficult.
Consolidation in this space? Just because Americans clammer for Google Pay to rule the world, it isn't something everyone wants. Not that I understand mobile wallets to begin with, why is it so hard keep track of your cards? Granted, if you have tens of cards, that is a problem with predatory card companies and not your wallet.
I think the appeal is not having to carry a wallet at all, because that's a lot more convenient than even just carrying one or two cards.
People have a lot of stuff in their wallets. Membership cards, personal credit cards, ID, transit cards, work cards, insurance cards. Anything I can do to slim down what I carry while making it more secure and work faster is a win for me.
I'm not sure what your argument is. I'm not arguing for mobile wallets to take over. If you want to use your physical cards, go for it. I like the convenience of tapping my watch or phone to a terminal when the option is available, but I don't complain if it's not an option.
I was more talking about [competing standards](https://xkcd.com/927/). I think Google Pay and Apple Pay are enough for mobile wallets that support NFC. They're maintained by the companies that produce the OS and if one is accepted, the other is generally accepted as well. But... you also had LG Pay and Chase Pay, which are both on the way out. Samsung Pay still exists, but is less supported and relies more on the MST niche that is on its way to being obsolete. Paypal still seems to be trying to make inroads when its specialty is e-commerce.
The problem is worse in the P2P space, which is dominated by Venmo and Square Cash with a bunch of other less-prominent players trying to make inroads. A standard like Zelle makes way more sense, but you can really only use what your friends use, which makes it extremely complicated.
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Totally keep your physical cards, but I love the fact that every time I use my Samsung Pay it creates a unique, one time use only credit card number to give the terminal, making cloning effectively impossible. It is convenient not to have to carry cards for sure but I've started only using gas stations that take contactless payments because they are a HUGE focus for card skimmers.
And while I'm at it why on earth bother to have chip readers on gas pumps that you put your card into? Surely a skimmer could just be put in the gap where you slide your card anyway? Did I miss something?
The terminals used on gas stations are specified by companies like VISA and MasterCard, at least our fully working one is going to be phased out in the near future because they mandate contactless payment-functionality. Let's just say that our economic co-operative that barely broke even for the first time in years because the restaurant has been closed for more than a year does not have the money to spare, and the county has none either, that when the time comes for this arbitrary mandate to be enforced then my town will no longer have its own gas station.
So by the end of 2021, Samsung Pay on S20/Note 20 series or older, and possibly the [OV Valet](https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ov-valet-and-digital-wallet) will be the only devices left which can use MST on card readers where NFC isn’t available…
Didn't Samsung stop supporting MST also... On new phones?
Notice they said the s20/note 20 and older. Note the s21.
They didn’t stop supporting it on existing devices, only stopped including it on all their new devices starting on the Galaxy S21 series… anyone with an S20 and Note20 or older can still use MST whenever they encounter a magstripe only card reader
To be precise, it is included but not enabled on the S21 series sold in the US. S21s in other markets continue to support MST.
What. Why? That's weird. I assumed it's for cost savings. NFC is way more common than it used to be but it's still not absolutely everywhere.
Wtf that makes no sense. Out of all the developed nations the USA is the one that has the lowest adoption rate for NFC payments.
>What. Why? That's weird. I assumed it's for cost savings. NFC is way more common than it used to be but it's still not absolutely everywhere.
huh wonder if that means mst will be enabled thorugh modding hope so I always wanted to try it on my s21
Only in the United States
I used to be a hardcore MST advocate as a former Galaxy S8/Gear S3 owner, but the last two years (the last in particular with the pandemic) have made a huge difference. On most of the terminals I use in the US now, the MST feature is less likely to prove useful [because the terminal supported magswipe but not NFC]) than it is to be annoying by triggering a "too many cards" error (by simultaneously hitting both the magswipe interface with MST and the NFC interface.
>and possibly the OV Valet
Others have been excited for this hardware and between the nature of Indiegogo protecting buyers less and the difficulty of getting banks to want to provision you/small market for people willing to buy dedicated payment devices, I don't think it'll work. Coin relied off of magswipe emulation and never got banks to provision EMV secrets to their hardware, and even with Fitbit pay being the legacy of that device Fitbit still (with millions of devices) can't compel Citibank in the US (one of the largest national banks) to support their cards on it...
The dude behind OV Valet also founded LoopPay and that became Samsung Pay (which he was actually in charge of for a while) he has also said there will be a card offered to users in case their bank isn’t compatible at launch
>The dude behind OV Valet also founded LoopPay and that became Samsung Pay (which he was actually in charge of for a while)
LoopPay was super novel and incredibly innovative in the US market: it offered a solution to the chicken-and-egg problem of proper contactless (how is it more secure [where banks and consumers should care] without requiring a capital investment by retailers to upgrade equipment to accept it?)... it was founded in 2012, far before the US EMV ("Chip") mandate. This gave it a huge amount of Fintech interest. Samsung bought it for a quarter of a billion to have a leg up on Apple pay in terms of retailer compatibility at the time. At the time Looppay had the technology advantage with virtually no US retailers taking tap but taking magswipe.
Now the majority of larger retailers have converted (and some smaller ones that have switched to managed points of sale like Clover, Toast, Square, etc.) to accept tap proper and it's redundant.
>he has also said there will be a card offered to users in case their bank isn’t compatible at launch
Most of these devices get at least one bank to launch a prepaid card only the most hardcore users want to use in at least one country. In the US, people want to use the same debit/credit card(s) they use everyday. Buying a device to separately fund another account is a huge drawback...
Funny that they barely Supported any banks.
Those 10 users will be devastated.
Will this then potentially open the door for the 11 Garmin Pay users to now be supported. I/Us/We are patiently waiting.
Don't forget about the Casio G-Shock pay customers.
They just double their user base!
didnt know that shit existed 😂
Still waiting for Google Pay coming to Malaysia, seriously our payment terminal is full with NFC
Wow. This could affect like 10 or 20 people.
5 you mean. Rest didn't even know it existed on their phone.
Can you discontinue something no one ever heard of or used?
Every day Samsung gets better and cuter. Soon no choice left 😢
I've been using an LG V40 since it launched and I didn't know there was such a thing as 'LG Pay'.
V60 user here I was enjoying this until it randomly stopped working yesterday. When I open the app it just says "Unusual activity detected" then exits. So disappointing because many retailers here in Texas still refuse to support nfc payment.
I don't use "xx pay" much because I can be tracked.
Cash is still pretty viable in my neighborhood, and those neighborhood stores can charge you few percent if you pay in card.
I don't understand this argument. You have a phone, you probably shop online, have a Google account, use a web browser, etc. so you're already being tracked to a substantial degree. The extra tracking by using a payment service is negligible in comparison. Even if you don't want your data out there, companies will serve you the same ads as someone with the same profile that chose to be tracked a la Cambridge Analytica so the end result is the same.
Huh? LG What now?
LG had a payment system?
LG Pay? rofl, what dipshit executive dreamed that up? The temerity of these fuckheads.
Lol they can't think of name ie apple pay Samsung pay lg pay Google pay kohls pay Bestbuy pay
I didn't even know that was a thing 🙈🙉🙊
LG what? When did this even start?
Never heard of it before
Who used it anyway?